The Lone Triple Loop Jump | Golden Skate

The Lone Triple Loop Jump

Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Has anyone noticed that many skaters leave this jump out of their routines, except for 'in combo'?

It is a difficult jump and it hurts the hips, both in take off and in landing. In combo it goes with the rhythm of the jumps and easy to cheat on ice before take off. No one will see that because it is just so wowish to see combos.

Can you name skaters who leave out the lone triple loop?

Joe
 

Sandra_persch

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Well I dont know if you want to count them but both Katja Grohmann (a german junior skater did it a few times last season as a stand alone jump in the free skate and as the opening jump in the combination in her short) and Nicole Gurny (a german novice skater) did a lone loop in their long programm last season.
 

Sylvia

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
The required jump out of steps in the short program for the junior skaters this season is triple loop. So the more competitive juniors, nationally and internationally, will be attempting a solo triple loop in 2007-08.
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Can you name skaters who leave out the lone triple loop?

Joe

I suspect it might be easier to pick out the skaters who do include the solo triple loop...actually now i think about it - the ladies tend to use it in combo but a fair amount of the men do the solo triple loop - Joubert, Lambiel and Oda all spring to mind as skaters who do it solo.

Ant
 

Snowgirl

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 17, 2006
Lysacek and Weir both had 3Lo in Worlds FS and both doubled it. Johnny seems not to like this jump, he had troubles with it all the season. But for some reason he keeps it in LP.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I agree it is mostly Ladies (and it is mentioned in the latest issue of Blades). I think it's reputation for causing hip problems may have gotten around a bit.

I look forward to the triple solo loop jumps required for the Junior Ladies this coming season. I would like to see it mandatory in the Senior Ladies SP.

The jump is not easy (the toe loop is 100% easier). and even with the Men when they are about to do a triple loop, they will pause and carefully prep for it.

Irina's 3turns into the loop was good prep, but I think that too, was because it had rythm.

Joe
 

Zuranthium

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Most every male skater has a solo Loop in their program because it's just not feasible to do the jump in combination after a Quad or 3Axle. I do think womans' bodies are also a bit better set-up, on average, to perform that particular jump in combination.

Less women are doing a solo 3Loop because, for the women that aren't great at the Loop, CoP lets them do a second 3Flip...and they get half a point more for doing so. The same goes for the solo Triple Salchow...women who don't like that jump just do a second Triple Flip instead.

Giving skaters a bonus point for doing all of the Triple jumps + Double Axel (Triple for Men) with no more than a negative -1 GOE on each jump would help to balance things out. You'd have to mark jumps done in combination separately, though, (which is something that needs to be changed anyway) so that someone who does something like a 3Flip/3Toe combo, but falls on the Toeloop, still gets counted as doing the required 3Flip.

~Z
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
well i know that Irina really liked this jump, and sasha always had it in her freeskates. I know that Mao dosen't do one... and i am pretty sure that Miki didn't either. Kimmie had one. I can't remeber if Yu-na had one or not.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
At 2007 Worlds exactly half of the ladies did a triple loop of some sort in their LP. Asada and Ando did it in combination (3F+3Lo for Mao, 3Lz+3Lo for Miki). Yu-na Kim did not attempt a triple loop at all.

Ladies who presented the triple loop solo were Meissner, Rochette, Poykio, Kostner, Korpi, Czisny, Sokolova, Hegel, Carter and Liu. (Gimetdinova and Katz did solo 2 loops, possibly intending triples?)

Notables who did not include a triple loop, besides Kim, were Nakano, Meier, Marchei, Hughes, Sebestyen, Martinova, Gedevanishvili, Glebova and Leung.
 

layman

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Both Miki Ando and Mao Asada do the loop jump in combination (I guess because it earns more points than a solo loop). Miki peforms the 3-lutz/3-loop and Mao the 3-flip/3-loop, and 3-loop/2-loop/2-loop.

I agree that the 3-loop is a difficult jump and it has ended a lot of careers due to the injuries it causes to the hips (Stellatto, Kwan, Lipinski, Kirk...and Carolina Kostner missed most of this season due to an ankle injury caused by the loop jump).

The only ladies who perform(ed) the loop jump really well that I recall were/are Irina Slutskaya, Sarah Hughes, and Mao Asada. All three get a lot of spring in the jump, which none of the skaters who were injured by the loop jump were ever able to do.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
The only ladies who perform(ed) the loop jump really well that I recall were/are Irina Slutskaya, Sarah Hughes, and Mao Asada. All three get a lot of spring in the jump, which none of the skaters who were injured by the loop jump were ever able to do.

It was a money jump for Laetitia Hubert, Maria Butyrskaya, Elena Sokolova in the 1990s.

And Caryn Kadavy in the 80s.

Good for Midori Ito and Tonya Harding as well.
 

HCOSurfer

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Yuna Kim hasnt had a loop in her program since she fell on it in her SP at the 2005 Junior Worlds.
 

gio

Medalist
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
It was a money jump for Laetitia Hubert, Maria Butyrskaya, Elena Sokolova in the 1990s.

And Caryn Kadavy in the 80s.

Good for Midori Ito and Tonya Harding as well.

Didn't Tonya tried the quad loop in practice? I think it exists a video of this.
 

gio

Medalist
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Notables who did not include a triple loop, besides Kim, were Nakano, Meier, Marchei, Hughes, Sebestyen, Martinova, Gedevanishvili, Glebova and Leung.

Will the 3loop become an animal in danger or extintion? Certainly it has become a more rare animal.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
At 2007 Worlds exactly half of the ladies did a triple loop of some sort in their LP. Asada and Ando did it in combination (3F+3Lo for Mao, 3Lz+3Lo for Miki). Yu-na Kim did not attempt a triple loop at all.
That's not the point of the thread. Doing triple or even double loops in combo is what is expected. Solo triple loops even from top skaters leave them out. As with Kwan, Kim had physical problems and that jump more than others, except for the salchow, maybe, will be the one jump ailing back aches will omit. Keeping to the rythym of a combo, loop jumps can be easier because it is so easily cheated before take off.

Ladies who presented the triple loop solo were Meissner, Rochette, Poykio, Kostner, Korpi, Czisny, Sokolova, Hegel, Carter and Liu. (Gimetdinova and Katz did solo 2 loops, possibly intending triples?)
Good gals!!! Hence the mention in Blades. The solo jump should have a higher base value, imo.

Notables who did not include a triple loop, besides Kim, were Nakano, Meier, Marchei, Hughes, Sebestyen, Martinova, Gedevanishvili, Glebova and Leung.
Was that a solo triple loop? If yes, then Mao and Asada should join this grouping.

Joe
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Joe, I think that for the purposes of this discussion the girls who have a triple loop combination do belong in a separate category from those who don't do the triple loop at all.

For this reason. If you don't do the triple loop at all it might be because you can't, because it's not a reliable element for you compared with some other jump, or (as in Yu-na's case) because of the risk of injury or long-term medical problems.

But for the skaters like Mao and Miki, who can do the jump just fine, either solo or in combination, and don't mind practicing it for hours on end, the reason they don't put it into the program is simply the CoP. As Zuranthium mentions above, if you can do a triple loop in combination then you can't also do a solo triple loop unless you give up your 2 Lutzes or your two flips. This costs you points.

It's all about the points, IMHO.
 

ks777

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
I love Yuka Sato's triple loop. I wouldn't be surprised if she is still landing this jump.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
But for the skaters like Mao and Miki, who can do the jump just fine, either solo or in combination, and don't mind practicing it for hours on end, the reason they don't put it into the program is simply the CoP. As Zuranthium mentions above, if you can do a triple loop in combination then you can't also do a solo triple loop unless you give up your 2 Lutzes or your two flips. This costs you points.
Not true, imo. Doing a combo with the loop as a second or even a third part of that combo is much easier than a solo loop. There is no concentration for the loop. It just flows out of the rhythm of the combo.

Have you ever seen a combo the loop first and then a toe loop second That would be difficult because one has to concentrate on the first loop.

btw - a solo loop jump should have a higher base value I believe we will see a quad lutz before we see a true. quad loop.

Joe
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I forgot to say no one does a solo triple loop just fine. They all go into serious pausing and then crouch over press hard and then skimming the edge to more than 45 degrees on the ice and finally jump.

Have you ever seen Miki and Mao's 3loop in an exhibition? It's a tough jump by itself.

Joe
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Not true, imo. Doing a combo with the loop as a second or even a third part of that combo is much easier than a solo loop. There is no concentration for the loop. It just flows out of the rhythm of the combo.
Very interesting. Nancy Kerrigan mentions this in her book. She says that one year there was a requirement in the short program of a triple loop combo. She had a lot of problems with doing the loop first, but eventually came up with a double toe/triple loop combo that satisfied the requirements.

On the other hand, presently only two women in the world can do a combo with a triple loop as the second jump (Asada and Ando). It seems like it can't be all that easy or others would try it.
 
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