Does Kimmie need the triple Axel?

but i never heard of her being a great student or anything.

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and if you haven't heard anything you do not have to believe she is a great student.

Joe

flying camel said:

Kimmie did say she plans to attend The Univ. of Delaware in the Fall.

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Thanks for your info. I hope that she will have wonderful college life

carolinefan177 said:

I dont know... Yu-Na Kim didn't need it to beat Mao at the Junior Worlds or GPF.

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Even though Yu-na says she won't practice 3A for now unless she feel she really needs it, I actually feel that it would be wonderful if Yu-Na practices it. Right now, she has very fast rotation and seems to have a great potential to get it. But when she gains more weigh as her body matures, it may become somewhat more difficult to master a newer jump. But perhaps, she herself and her coaches would certainly know much better what she needs to win. Just a random thought of a fan

morninglight said:

Even though Yu-na says she won't practice 3A for now unless she feel she really needs it, I actually feel that it would be wonderful if Yu-Na practices it. Right now, she has very fast rotation and seems to have a great potential to get it. But when she gains more weigh as her body matures, it may become somewhat more difficult to master a newer jump. But perhaps, she herself and her coaches would certainly know much better what she needs to win. Just a random thought of a fan

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Kim can't do a 3A.
Her rotation speed is rather slow compared to Mao or Ando.
That's why she needs that height and distance to make three revolutions,
and for the same reason, she is poor at edge jumps which are difficult to gain height and distance. I'm pretty sure a skater who can't do 3loop will be never able to master a 3A.

Not only is Kimmie planning on going to UDel part time in the fall, she is, IIRC, planning on majoring inphysical therapy. Regardless of what you may or may not have heard about her capacities as a student, PT programs are intense, and admission is very restricted. I'm guessing that she is just as dedicated and determined when it comes to school as she is in skating and in her devotion to her Cool Kids campaign.

dancindiva03 said:

Not only is Kimmie planning on going to UDel part time in the fall, she is, IIRC, planning on majoring inphysical therapy. Regardless of what you may or may not have heard about her capacities as a student, PT programs are intense, and admission is very restricted. I'm guessing that she is just as dedicated and determined when it comes to school as she is in skating and in her devotion to her Cool Kids campaign.

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That's wonderful for her Thank you for sharing.

morninglight said:

Even though Yu-na says she won't practice 3A for now unless she feel she really needs it, I actually feel that it would be wonderful if Yu-Na practices it. Right now, she has very fast rotation and seems to have a great potential to get it. But when she gains more weigh as her body matures, it may become somewhat more difficult to master a newer jump. But perhaps, she herself and her coaches would certainly know much better what she needs to win. Just a random thought of a fan

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I suspect that trying to add the triple axel would aggrevate her back injuries. I would think for her own health she's better off working the other five triples and getting a second 3/3 in there.

Ant

satorare said:

Kim can't do a 3A.
Her rotation speed is rather slow compared to Mao or Ando.
That's why she needs that height and distance to make three revolutions,
and for the same reason, she is poor at edge jumps which are difficult to gain height and distance. I'm pretty sure a skater who can't do 3loop will be never able to master a 3A.

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Steven Cousins struggled with both triple axel and triple loop but by the end of his career he'd ditched the triple loop and was managing to hit one of his two planed triple axels.

Ant

antmanb said:

Steven Cousins struggled with both triple axel and triple loop but by the end of his career he'd ditched the triple loop and was managing to hit one of his two planed triple axels.

Ant

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The Solo Triple Loop is a tough jump!!! and the base value should be increased. I am no longer impressed with 2-1/4 loop jumps in combination.

z4mboni said:

Getting back to the topic of "whole package" and how the concept might change... I think that whole package /is/ whole package. A complete skater will be a complete skater no matter what the system - although it might certainly take time to adjust to the new one.

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"The whole package is the whole package."

To me, this is the core and soul of the old ordinal system of judging. The skater gets the number 1 ordinal if the judges felt that he/she presented the best overall performance. The second best gets 2nd.

The "whole tech package" score and the "whole presentation package" score (the 5.6's and 5.9's) were used as mnemonic devices to help the judges handle a large field of competitors.

The philosophy of the New Judging System is 180 degrees from that. Under the CoP you acquire points piecemeal. The way to win under CoP is to get 4.5 points for this, 3.6 points for that, 8.3 points for something else, and hope that your points add up to more than the other guy's. Yankees 5, Bosox 3.

This is not to say that skaters will neglect spins, spirals and step sequences. Not at all -- you get points for them, and even more points if you come up with a harder version. Doing more intricate transitions and moves in the field might give you more points in the PCSs. I guess that is what people hope will happen.

My hope is that somehow the New Judging System, despite itself, will find a way to recognize performances in which the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

but this new system is all about adding the parts, lol. Not sure how you could turn that around without introducing even more subjectivity into the scoring. It remains that different people like different kinds of performances.

^ True. I am not optimistic.

A good example of a "whole being greater than the sum of it's parts" would be Torvill and Dean's Bolero or Michelle's Aranjuez.

But then again, Irina Slutskaya's 2005 Worlds performance won because it rocked the house, and that was under CoP. (Her performance was so amazing that the judges just had to give her a bunch of extra points in PCSs, to make sure she won.)

Red Dog said:

but this new system is all about adding the parts, lol. Not sure how you could turn that around without introducing even more subjectivity into the scoring. It remains that different people like different kinds of performances.

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There's nothing original in Figure Skating, RD. And you are right it's all about adding an extra air turn, or getting a leg up higher. Even officially, a bonus score has never been given because there really isn't anything new.

Yes, yes, yes. Performance is in the eye of the beholder.

Joe

Joesitz said:

There's nothing original in Figure Skating,

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I see your point Joe, but you know me.... that is just not a entirely true comment in it's self IMO. The uniqueness comes from the forum in which the other "non-original" elements are "borrowed" and applied. Once applied they are origanal as any other sport, for it's use in a particular forum that it has not been applied prior make the use original.

Maybe I see it as FS in it's self as original, even though there are "inspirations" from other places. On this notion, there is no original music other than a beating of a stick on a drum, no original way of cooking other than skewer on a fire, dancing???? hop to the beat is the only original???....

o·rig·i·nal
5. created, undertaken, or presented for the first time: to give the original performance of a string quartet. (string quartet being something preexisting)

10. a person whose ways of thinking or acting are original: In a field of brilliant technicians he is a true original. (there are all sorts of technicians already, but one of them doing something different in a new way...)

Maybe the elements themselves is not the original factor, I agree, but once the application in a new format has been made, originality.

I just can't control myself when people try to "take something away" form FS - as though to discredit it by vague definition. Sorry.

Red Dog said:

but this new system is all about adding the parts, lol. Not sure how you could turn that around without introducing even more subjectivity into the scoring. It remains that different people like different kinds of performances.

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:agree: so why don't they try and eliminate subjectivity and personal preference from the "intent" of scoring? It will be a factor of course, but is there a need to perpetuate "preference" in scoring? Or is it something it could just do with out?

Kimmie has a different style about how she "performs" on the ice, is it really "fair" to say as a judge, people don't get her style as much, so let's not mark her that high." ???? Arm position and such I see, but saying that 9 - 12 judges that are no where near being a teenager anymore - and likely find themselves "out of touch with the new generations" like most of us do over 30 - 35 - can really judge how "personalities" are conveyed? Her "cool" demeanor is likely to get a "cool" response - not as evident is understood? But hey, if Judging is just using a "applause meter" mentality to make this score, why don't they just use an applause meter than?

Maybe the elements themselves is not the original factor, I agree, but once the application in a new format has been made, originality.

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Any Dance Technical is very much like figure skating. Nothing much to speak about original dance moves. However, Choreography plays a huge roll in dance, and, of course, the dancers who act out this creativity is relevant.

Just, in my opinion, there is little I see in figure skating choreography in competitions. SOA does bring out some choreo which is enjoyable.

For eligibles there is the opening jump for Ladies, ususally a combo followed by a solo jump of some kind and then a convoluted spin. A series of jumps interspersed with lots of crossovers for the Men followed by fist raising and the inevitable convoluted sitspin (real men don't do camels). Pairs will open up with a schnazzy move and proceed with crossovers into a big lift followed by triple toe jumps. All going from one end of the arena to the other. Dance will open up with a schnazzy move and proceed to give an inkling of a recognizable dance followed by their own original shoot the duck. Look passion even if you don't feel it.

The choreography is the thing to make it look artsy - not the skater, imo.

Joe

Joesitz said:

Any .... it.

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Very clarifying post Joe, Thanks!

Joesitz said:

The choreography is the thing to make it look artsy - not the skater, imo.

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Does that mean Kimmie is not to blame for any comments of "lack of connection?" Needs to work on artistry?

I don't like the word 'artistry' I prefer 'presentaton' for all skaters because they are very restricted in the Sport to really show something special except tricks.

Be that as it may for me, I do believe Kimmie has got to learn to present herself to the public, and I hope she's getting it from COI. Those little Asian gals are going to show how adorable they are together with high level tricks.

Kimmie has the tricks, but she's got to sell them or in the words of Button, the routine has to sing.

Joe

Joesitz said:

Be that as it may for me, I do believe Kimmie has got to learn to present herself to the public, and I hope she's getting it from COI.

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I don't know for I "got no Kimmie" last night. During practice there was the comment, "remember Kimmie is gone now," (I think it was Brian) and my heart sunk a little.

But again, is that fault of Kimmie, choreography, crowd response, generation gapp.... ???? Is Kimmie really not connecting (for she does with me but see others lack of seeing it) OR just connecting in a new way?????

Sometimes you really have to stretch the rubberband to find the hook that "really" holds it.
????

I personally like Kimmie even more for not being showy, not showing off "how pretty I am." She has very fresh, healthy charm, which I like a lot

morninglight said:

I personally like Kimmie even more for not being showy, not showing off "how pretty I am." She has very fresh, healthy charm, which I like a lot

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:agree::agree::agree: As are you as well morninglight! You live up to your name.