Totmianina & Marin won't come back

Ptichka · Jun 1, 2007

http://glavred.info/archive/2007/06/01/152821-12.html
Olympic champions refused to come back

Turin Olympic gold winners in pair skating, Russian skaters Tatiana Totmianina and Maxim Marinin will not come back to big sport. According to Marinin, he and his partner want to compete, “but there is no chance and no real point”, reports “Novosti”.

“It all comes down to money, as we all have our families. At this point, we have work and contracts. When we needed medals, we did everything”, noted the athlete. “In any case, the sport would come to the end at some point. We’ll continue to train, but won’t create a program for competition”. Marinin added that he already shared his considerations with the Russian Skating Federation president Valentin Piseev, who was understanding of the skater’s position. Keep in mind that in mid-May, Piseev talked about the come back of Totmianina and Marinin and early 2008, and their participation in Russian Nationals (January 4 – 8).

Now, from the skaters who won medals at Turin Olympics, Evgeny Plushenko is the only one who can come back to eligible sport. He plans to skate at the Russian Grand Prix event Cup of Russia (November 22-25 of 2007), and will take part in January Nationals.

layman · Jun 1, 2007

I don't think it was a bad decision. Totmianina & Marinin have achieved everything that they wanted competitively and are now reaping the rewards of their success and sacrifice. These athletes families have had to sacrifice a lot too and its great to see the athletes re-pay that investment.

I was watching the Cup of Russia and 2007 Worlds performance of Kawaguchi and Smirnov and I think they are so advanced, so elegant and so powerful a team (after just a few months of skating together) that I have no doubt that they will be the leaders of the Russian teams in this Olympic Cycle and it seems to me that like so many of Tamara Moskvina's teams, they will be challening for a medal come the next Olympics.

I don't think Russia has anything to worry about. After all, how many teams can skate together for two months and then medal at their first International competition (Cup of Russia) and skate in the final flight at their first Worlds. Kawaguchi and Smirnov are special.

Ptichka · Jun 1, 2007

layman said:
I was watching the Cup of Russia and 2007 Worlds performance of Kawaguchi and Smirnov and I think they are so advanced, so elegant and so powerful a team (after just a few months of skating together) that I have no doubt that they will be the leaders of the Russian teams in this Olympic Cycle and it seems to me that like so many of Tamara Moskvina's teams, they will be challening for a medal come the next Olympics.

This is all assuming that they will be eligible for representing Russia in the Olympics, which is highly problematic. Yuka is in a bind - if she takes on Russian citizenship, she will automatically loose her Japanese one; she has stated that she won't do that, and Japan is not likely to make an exception for her. Other that that, I agree with what you say.

Zanzibar · Jun 1, 2007

Well, it is indeed looking more and more then like Auverbukh was telling the truth when he said they would be doing his TV show come Autumn.

Too bad Max doesn't stay in the sport - would enjoy seeing what he could be capable of with a different partner...

Dodhiyel · Jun 1, 2007

I agree with layman's assessment of the ability of the team of Kawaguchi and Smirnov. I enjoyed watching them; unfortunately, I also agree with what Ptichka said about the problem of nationality for Kawaguchi, when it comes to the Olympics. It would be nice if Japan made an exception for her, and allowed her dual citizenship, but if they do not, then Russia needs a different Pairs team to compete at the next Olys.

As for Tatyana and Maksim, I wish them the very best in their future undertakings. Their polish, their finish and elegance reached the highest level of skill, and their consistency has been amazing. Their comeback after Tatyana's terrible accident, was a testimony to their strong work ethic, and indomitable will; moreover, their work after the accident was infused with a visible personal connection that was quite beautiful. I shall never forget their first televised program after the accident, an exhibition to "Ave Maria"; it was so moving. :clap:

Joesitz (RIP) · Jun 1, 2007

They have indeed won their goal in figure skating. Why would they want to come back and face a healthy Shen & Zhao? or even a Pang and Tong? I think they are happy the way things turned out for them. However, I think Piseev is really trying to get 3 skaters or teams on board before the Olys. they have very talented young men which will get 3 on for 2009 if Evgeni skates. T&M could get 3 on if they made it to the podium (Pang and Tong, S&S, Virtue and Moir, and S&Z should they decide to skate) Not so easy this time around. Why risk that and it's only for a medal so that Piseev can have 3 teams?

Joe

Kwanford Wife · Jun 1, 2007

Ptichka said:
This is all assuming that they will be eligible for representing Russia in the Olympics, which is highly problematic. Yuka is in a bind - if she takes on Russian citizenship, she will automatically loose her Japanese one; she has stated that she won't do that, and Japan is not likely to make an exception for her. Other that that, I agree with what you say.

This may seem like a stupid question, but I must ask: if she doesn't want to gain Russian citizenship to compete and her partner isn't talking about obtaining Japanese citizenship w/o a possible exception being made - then what's the point? Is this team simply not concerned about the Games or am I missing something...

Joesitz (RIP) · Jun 1, 2007

Kwanford Wife said:
This may seem like a stupid question, but I must ask: if she doesn't want to gain Russian citizenship to compete and her partner isn't talking about obtaining Japanese citizenship w/o a possible exception being made - then what's the point? Is this team simply not concerned about the Games or am I missing something...

Piseev with his buddy Cinquanta will find a way.

netnuts · Jun 1, 2007

Joesitz said:
T&M could get 3 on if they made it to the podium (Pang and Tong, S&S, Virtue and Moir, and S&Z should they decide to skate) Not so easy this time around. Why risk that and it's only for a medal so that Piseev can have 3 teams?

Joe

Are you okay today? LOL. V&M are dancers, not pairs skaters. S&Z are not competing anymore. But TT&MM will have work cut out even if they return with S&S, Pang & Tong and Zhangs in the mix. Although they had amazing consistency, it's another story when you don't have any motivation and have stopped for that kind of intense training for more than a year.

Not sure about K&S' chance, seems to me another O&S in the making without the lines.

Kwanford Wife · Jun 1, 2007

Joesitz said:
Piseev with his buddy Cinquanta will find a way.

I hope so, because this team is hot and it would be a shame if they missed competing because ice skating officials decided not to fix a problem - for once... Maybe they can call the USFSA and find out how the "Americans with Exceptional Talents" bill works ...

slutskayafan21 · Jun 1, 2007

Joesitz said:
They have indeed won their goal in figure skating. Why would they want to come back and face a healthy Shen & Zhao?

Why wouldnt they want to face a healthy Shen/Zhou? I am sure it would be nice for them to renew the rivalry the two teams had in the 2002-2003 seasons and 203-2004 seasons had they returned, and that certainly would not be a detriment to returning. They were the only one of the current teams who did rival and beat Shen/Zhou when they were healthy, as they won 3 of 5 meetings with them those 2 seasons.

or even a Pang and Tong?

Pang/Tong are roadkill for Totmianina/Marinin quite honestly. Pang/Tong have never come close to beating them. Although I like Pang/Tong, the reality is they are the team that hardly ever beats any of the other top teams unless they have problems. They have never beaten Shen/Zhou or Totmianina/Marinin. They only beat Petrova/Tikhonov when they had mistakes, with the exception of the 2006 Worlds. They only beat Savchenko/Szokoly when they have had mistakes. They havent beaten a clean Zhang/Zhang for over 2 years.

I think they are happy the way things turned out for them. However, I think Piseev is really trying to get 3 skaters or teams on board before the Olys. they have very talented young men which will get 3 on for 2009 if Evgeni skates. T&M could get 3 on if they made it to the podium (Pang and Tong, S&S, Virtue and Moir, and S&Z should they decide to skate) Not so easy this time around. Why risk that and it's only for a medal so that Piseev can have 3 teams?

Voir/Mirtue are ice dancers. As I said Totmianina/Marinin were serious rivals to Shen/Zhou even when they were healthy, and Pang/Tong and Savchenko/Szokoly have never come close to beating them.

Ptichka · Jun 1, 2007

Joesitz said:
Piseev with his buddy Cinquanta will find a way.

I doubt it. It's not a question of the Japanese skating federation, but of the Japanese government. Doubt Cinquanta carries much weight there. As to what's the point - Olympics is not the only competition. Kawaguchi has been in the sport for a long time, has struggled through several partners - and finally she has found one that she is good with. Her choices are to not skate with him (and likely give up the sport for good) or make the best out of the situation. If they, say, manage to get a couple of world titles, I don't think it would be that much of a waste.

Mathman · Jun 1, 2007

Slutskayafan said:
Why wouldnt they want to face a healthy Shen/Zhou? I am sure it would be nice for them to renew the rivalry the two teams had in the 2002-2003 seasons and 203-2004 seasons had they returned, and that certainly would not be a detriment to returning. They were the only one of the current teams who did rival and beat Shen/Zhou when they were healthy, as they won 3 of 5 meetings with them those 2 seasons....

Pang/Tong are roadkill for Totmianina/Marinin quite honestly. Pang/Tong have never come close to beating them. Although I like Pang/Tong, the reality is they are the team that hardly ever beats any of the other top teams unless they have problems. They have never beaten Shen/Zhou or Totmianina/Marinin. They only beat Petrova/Tikhonov when they had mistakes, with the exception of the 2006 Worlds. They only beat Savchenko/Szokoly when they have had mistakes. They havent beaten a clean Zhang/Zhang for over 2 years.

But that was then, this is now. I think what T&M are saying is, what's in it for us? ("It all comes down to money.")

The thrill of winning a shiny medal just isn't sufficient motivation any more for all the hell they have to put themselves through to train and compete.

Zazanuka · Jun 1, 2007

Zanzibar said:
Too bad Max doesn't stay in the sport - would enjoy seeing what he could be capable of with a different partner...

You make a joke. It is Tat who is power of this team.

slutskayafan21 · Jun 1, 2007

Mathman said:
But that was then, this is now. I think what T&M are saying is, what's in it for us? ("It all comes down to money.")

The thrill of winning a shiny medal just isn't sufficient motivation any more for all the hell they have to put themselves through to train and compete.

I am not saying I disagree with their decision not to return, and that I dont understand them not having any motivation to return. I was disagreeing with Joesitz's opinion from a competitive standpoint. They have proven they can compete with even a healthy Shen/Zhou, they were less spectacular and moving, but their consistency made them a close competitor. They would have absolutely nothing to fear from any of the other current top pairs especialy. Pang/Tong, who I like, have never been any kind of threat to them, they havent even come close to beating them once, and Pang/Tong have not really improved since they left, at best they are the same. The Zhangs were not close to beating Totmianina/Marinin at any point in the last Olympic season and they have gone backwards big time this past season, not forwards but backwards. Savchenko/Szokoly are the only top team to improve since they left but they would need a huge jump in consistency to even come close to challenging Totmianina/Marinin. Basically a vintage Totmianina/Marinin would have the current field, with Shen/Zhou already leaving, for breakfast more or less. They would completely dominate the current field, minus Shen/Zhou, unless someone stepped it up big time. Pang/Tong, Zhangs, Savchenko/Szokoly are not even close to the level they left at. A healthy Shen/Zhou vs a healthy Totmianina/Marinin would be a great competition, and the rest are clearly second tier by comparision.

From a competitive standpoint Totmianina/Marinin would not be entering a worrying situation by any stretch of the imagination. That was what I was saying is all. I wasnt saying I dont completely understand why they are not returning, and that there isnt really anything left for them to do. I do understand that.

Kwanford Wife · Jun 1, 2007

Ptichka said:
IAs to what's the point - Olympics is not the only competition. Kawaguchi has been in the sport for a long time, has struggled through several partners - and finally she has found one that she is good with. Her choices are to not skate with him (and likely give up the sport for good) or make the best out of the situation. If they, say, manage to get a couple of world titles, I don't think it would be that much of a waste.

Thanks for the background on Kawaguchi... I wasn't aware of her earlier struggles and you are absolutely correct - as Shen & Zhao, Browing, Irina and of course :bow:

Her Royal Kwanliness :bow:

have proven - Olympic Gold is not the end game in this sport. Thanks for the reminder!

attyfan · Jun 1, 2007

I think the joint citizenship rule is set by the IOC (affecting all sports), not the ISU -- so, maybe Piseev could find allies in other Oly (non-skating) sports where the rule is becoming a problem.

Ptichka · Jun 1, 2007

attyfan said:
I think the joint citizenship rule is set by the IOC (affecting all sports), not the ISU -- so, maybe Piseev could find allies in other Oly (non-skating) sports where the rule is becoming a problem.

No. Belbin, Tchernyshev, Savchenko - all have dual citizenship. It's the question of Japanese laws, nothing to do with IOC or sport at all.

Tinymavy15 · Jun 1, 2007

layman said:
I don't think it was a bad decision. Totmianina & Marinin have achieved everything that they wanted competitively and are now reaping the rewards of their success and sacrifice. These athletes families have had to sacrifice a lot too and its great to see the athletes re-pay that investment.

I was watching the Cup of Russia and 2007 Worlds performance of Kawaguchi and Smirnov and I think they are so advanced, so elegant and so powerful a team (after just a few months of skating together) that I have no doubt that they will be the leaders of the Russian teams in this Olympic Cycle and it seems to me that like so many of Tamara Moskvina's teams, they will be challening for a medal come the next Olympics.
.

:thumbsup: I agree. The think that Kawaguchi and Smirnov have a lot of poetntiol. They should deffinelty be in the top three at worlds within a year or two and hopefullly at the olympics if she gets her citizenship worked out. I hope that they get better outfits though! lol :rofl:

Totmianina & Marinin have been worlds champs at least twice, olympics champs... they have had a very good run. I think that competing again would only be bad for them, it's best to leave on a high note as they did. I wish them the best in all thier future endevors!

Mathman · Jun 1, 2007

Ptichka said:
No. Belbin, Tchernyshev, Savchenko - all have dual citizenship. It's the question of Japanese laws, nothing to do with IOC or sport at all.

? Isn't it the IOC that says both partners have to be citizens of the same country to compete in the Olympics? There is no Japanese law about that.

Totmianina & Marin won't come back

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