What to expect from Caroline?

Tinymavy15 · Jun 10, 2007

Okay, now that we know for sure that she is skating in the senior grand prix.... where will she place. does she have a realistic chance to make up the final? I think so. i think that not only will she make the final, but that she will beat kimmie if they go head to head!

ks777 · Jun 10, 2007

Kimmie doesn't really have the reliable 3/3s, it's going to be pretty close between these two. Caroline has better spins and spirals but Kimmie has better skating skills and footworks. I wasn't impressed with Caroline's speed so she really needs to work on that this season.

feraina · Jun 10, 2007

I think with a consistent 3/3, Caroline will almost certainly beat Kimmie, and possibly Miki, given her superior spins, spirals, and presentation. Without a 3/3, she will probably lose to Miki, but still beat a Kimmie that frequently under-rotates the 3/3. Regarding Caroline's speed, I think maybe she sometimes looks slow on TV because she's so smooth. Eye-witness acounts of Caroline have often praised her for ice coverage and floating across the ice with quiet power. All second-hand heresay, though. I'd love to see her in person!

Assuming all skating at their best, I think only Mao & Yu-na have a reliable chance of beating Caroline, Mao with her amazing basic skating skills and of course 3-axel, Yu-na with her beautiful jumps and passionate program interpretations (though what's this rumor about her possibly using Phantom of the Opera next year, Bleh!). But neither were as consistent last year as Caroline, who skated 8 perfect programs (and fell in 2 where she still came in a close 2nd to Mirai), and a ton of perfect exhibitions containing 3lutz-2toe and 3flip (Nationals, Marshalls, JW, 2 COI shows).

Besides the 3/3, jump techniques, I hope Caroline puts together better footwork sequences for next year -- mellow and pretty don't get you high levels or GOE's on step seq's!

Go Caroline! :love:

flying camel · Jun 10, 2007

I am so excited to see another american girl that can skate well under pressure besides Kimmie. Last year there was Kimmie and only Kimmie. She did not even skate her best. But she was all we had. So, I just hope Caroline skates well & is competitive. I think she can medal in al her events even without the 3/3.

Kypma · Jun 10, 2007

feraina said:
Yu-na with her beautiful jumps and passionate program interpretations (though what's this rumor about her possibly using Phantom of the Opera next year, Bleh!).

I think this comes from an article a little while back, showing she wanted to get ideas for choreography], so she went to see the musical, I think. Nowhere was it mentionned she was actually going to skate to the music from the phantom of the opera.

Kypma

Link to the article: http://www.savefile.com/files/797796

As for Caroline... I'm not sure that she's a sure medal bet (wow, weird sentence, but whatever). Of course she's great and all, but she might lose points for flutzing with the new rules. However, she seems to be able to perform well under pressure, except for Nationals, where she was beaten by a virtual unknown. I'm not sure she can medal without a 3/3, because it depends mainly on the level of her other elements, and it seems her step sequences need work. Anyways, I don't know her much other than for the fact she was practically unbeatable this season, and I can't wait to see how she'll fare this season. I'd hate to see her end her season at Nationals (or 4 Continents - does it have the same age limits as worlds?), but her going back to Junior Worlds is just strange.

PolymerBob · Jun 10, 2007

Kypma said:
I'd hate to see her end her season at Nationals (or 4 Continents - does it have the same age limits as worlds?), but her going back to Junior Worlds is just strange.

Junior Worlds in not only not strange, it is a necessity. She is too young for senior worlds, so she can only go to junior worlds.

Spun Silver · Jun 10, 2007

I think she will establish herself as the new star of US skating and the top American lady this year... although next year Mirai and hopefully Sasha :love:

will put that to the test.

I have great confidence in this young lady. It will be exciting to see how she competes and develops in competition with Miki, Mao, and Yu Na.

gio · Jun 10, 2007

I don't know. I'm a little bit skeptical about her. Her PC scores were overinflated IMO. Her SP and LP weren't artistically superior comparing to Miki and Kimmie. So I won't say she beats those two in that department. Sure, she is much younger than those two, but as for now she is still artistically inferior. The problem is that she probably used music (SP,LP) that she didn't like!
Kimmie's and Miki's jumps are sooo much better than her's, we can't even compare. Kimmie has all the triples, maybe even the 3A. Miki lips, but apart for that her jumps are amazing, especially her 3Z,3L. Caroline spins and spirals are better? Well, if you like skating as a contorsionist competition!
The only programs I like were her exhibition. Here she skated with emotion to a music that she enjoyed.

oleada · Jun 10, 2007

Honestly, I do not think she will make the GP final. She is a lovely skater and delightful to watch but she does have some technique issues - the high kick, the flagrant flutz. Her footwork isn't the best, and if they're following the new rules regarding wrong takeoff edges, she will lose points on those. Mao and Yu-Na made (and won) the final on their first year, but they were more technically gifted than Caroline, with both having triple-triples, and they were a bit older. Also, the dreaded puberty monster could rear its ugly head. I could see her winning bronze, maybe, in Skate America, but definitely not beating Kimmie and Miki.

Besides, she is only 13. She has all the time in the world.

edit to add: Kimmie's spiral is underrated, in my opinion. She has nice edge control and good positions. It is very competent.

Mathman · Jun 10, 2007

I agree with the posters who are not ready to put Kimmie out to pasture just yet.

She's the 2005 World champion, she has shown she is capable of a 190 point competition, and she hasn't yet hit her peak.

Last year her jump consistency suffered slightly as she grew a little and also concentrated more on artistry. Let's give her a chance in 2007-08 before we start looking for greener grass on the other side of the hill.

Tinymavy15 · Jun 10, 2007

flying camel said:
I am so excited to see another american girl that can skate well under pressure besides Kimmie. Last year there was Kimmie and only Kimmie. She did not even skate her best. But she was all we had. So, I just hope Caroline skates well & is competitive. I think she can medal in al her events even without the 3/3.

:agree: Caroline probably will not have a 3/3 in compotion for this up coming season. as far as i know she is not working on one, but may start to do so. However, it is doubtful that she will try one in comotion this season.

london_calling · Jun 10, 2007

I like Caroline's skating but, in my opinion, she still skates a little young and some of her jumping techniques should really be improved.

Kimmie improved a lot this season artistically and also seems determined to keep improving. I still think she's a medal contender.

Kypma · Jun 10, 2007

PolymerBob said:
Junior Worlds in not only not strange, it is a necessity. She is too young for senior worlds, so she can only go to junior worlds.

I know it's a necessity, it's just that she's already won it. Usually, people move up completely to seniors or, in some cases, compete in the SGP and Jr Worlds one season then go to Senior Worlds, like Mao .Caroline still has Jr Worlds 08... oh, that's it. Sorry, I thought she had two more to go, but I guess it's only one. My bad!

It would be neat if she could do what Mao did, win the GPF in her first try, but then Mao was upset by Yu-Na at Jr Worlds last year. Ah well, time will tell, but I do agree that Caroline has some work to become a serious title contender in seniors.

Kypma

carolinefan177 · Jun 10, 2007

Go Caroline!

I think she has what it takes to medal at the senior level. She is a very hard worker and practically spends all of her time on the ice. Her goals have been to improve her jumping technique and to deepen the outside edge on her lutz, and I think with her determination we will see progression in her jumps. Also, she has been working on those triple-triples (3Lz-3T and 3F-3T) and has already made consistent some sequences (3L-3L and 3Lz-3T). I really hope she does the 3L-toe tap-3L not only because 3L-3L is rarely seen, but also because she usually gets +GOEs for her 3L. I don't know about you, but I really liked her skating to "Olga." It is a very lyrical piece and she is a lyrical skater, but I do hope she doesn't skate to two lyrical pieces this year; she needs to portray her ability to skate to different genres of music (like we saw at the jw exhibition).

I hope we get to see a back charlotte from her as well! :rock:

gio · Jun 10, 2007

Tinymavy15 said:
:agree: Caroline probably will not have a 3/3 in compotion for this up coming season. as far as i know she is not working on one, but may start to do so. However, it is doubtful that she will try one in comotion this season.

It is better that she fix her 3Lutz and 3Sal, before talking about a 3/3. She did four triple flips without even trying to cover the cheat. Kimmie has true jumps, good spins and spirals (no contorsionism!!!). All she lacks is artistry.
So, GO KIMMIE and show what are you capable of!!! :clap:

carolinefan177 · Jun 10, 2007

Here's an intersting article about Caroline that I have posted on other threads. (=

She IS working on her 3-3's

http://www.skatetoday.com/articles07/021307.htm

chuckm · Jun 10, 2007

What Caroline has going for her is the ability to skate a clean FS under pressure. If she can do that in Senior competition she should do well, even without a 3/3. But she is lacking, if not in speed, in ice coverage. She is just too small to cover the entire rink.

Deficient ice coverage held Sasha back, too, in her first couple of years on the Senior circuit. Sasha won medals, but not always gold.

I am not sure Caroline can beat Kimmie so easily, either. Caroline's footwork is rather basic and she often didn't get L4 for her spiral sequence and some of her spins. Kimmie has better overall skating skills, and being the 2006 World champion and a seeded skater in the 2007 GP gets judges' respect in the form of high PCS scores. Caroline is just starting out as a senior and has to show the judges that at 14, she is as good as, or better than, many of her competitors.

When compared to the JGP juniors, Caroline was a standout; but compared to Kimmie, Miki and Emily, maybe not so much.

carolinefan177 · Jun 10, 2007

I agree that she needs to improve her footwork, but perhaps that will come with age. In regard to her spiral sequences, she does usually get a level four with +GOE's of 2 and 3. Most of the time, when she doesn't, it is because she doesn't hold the position long enough. The same problem lies in her spins. Sometimes she got lower leves on her spins because of the decreased number of revolutions, but she's fixing that. Regardless of the level, though, she still gets +GOES for them. If she improves her jumps, she will be a formidable force.

netnuts · Jun 10, 2007

premature

It's a bit premature to judge what she can do. Let's just wait and see whether she will make significant improvements after several months of intense training.

Another factor is puberty monster. But it may not hit her until 16, 17 judging by similar skaters such as Mao & Kim.

Caroline Zhang is definitely working hard on a 3flip+3toe according to one eyewitness.

Regarding Mao, I have a feeling she may lose her 3A next season; Kim needs to prove she can skate clean long program, she got some benefit of doubt by judges this season, but if she can't do clean long program in the future, her PCS will slide; Kimmie has had consistency problem the entire season, we'll wait and see whether it can be addressed.

kappa_1 · Jun 10, 2007

I agree that Caroline has some work to do before she becomes a serious challenger to the likes of Mao, Kim, Ando and Meissner. Overall she still has juniorish presentation and that's okay because, well, she is 13 after all. But we'll see, maybe she'll undergo a Kwan '95 transformation and shock everyone. Maybe not. She could learn from, say, Rachel Flatt, how to really express the music in a competitive program. Flatt's expression reminds me of Kwan post transformation.

I'll place my bets that Meissner will land on the World podium and will not be surprised at al if she takes home the whole thing. Sure she's flawed, underrotates her 3/3s, etc. but if it's one thing that girl has in determination. After being shut out of the podium last season I'm sure she is also very hungry to take back that top spot. Last season she did make major strides in her artistry and I'm anxious to see what she has in store for us next season.

What to expect from Caroline?

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win

ks777

feraina

flying camel

Kypma

PolymerBob

Spun Silver

gio

oleada

Mathman

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win

london_calling

Kypma

carolinefan177

gio

carolinefan177

chuckm

carolinefan177

netnuts

Match Penalty

kappa_1

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