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Thread: Fascination with a quad...part 2

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    nefertiti..reincarnate
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    Fascination with a quad...part 2

    This is a sequel to morninglight's thread somewhere deep in the index.
    Quote Originally Posted by morninglight View Post
    ...But for Mao, who has a nearly consistent 3A and who hasn't mastered a quad, I am not sure how making a history helps her getting the OGM at all. Personally, I am hoping that she doesn't take any risk if it's unnecessary.
    ...Yet, she does say that she wants to improve further and further every year. And a quad may be one of the most attractive ways for her to feel the sense of accomplishment. But I feel that she can improve in many other ways.....
    I am hoping the same thing as morninglight, but Mao has repeatedly said she plans to do quads; ...is there a way to stop her doing so?

    From the latest to 15 months backwards in order.

    1. TV-Asahi news show (yesterday) which satorare has reported to this forum in another thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by satorare View Post
    Mao update
    ...And she's practicing quads seriously (no video was shown though).
    Mao says "The next step of the 3A is quads. I'm working hard and do my best to land one." ...
    My translation would be almost the same; "My next step from the triples would be none other than the quad, after all. I'll keep on practicing a lot and hopefully I'll land it (in my program)!"

    2. Sponichi("Sports Japan", April 5) "Mao's weightlifting to make her quad come true"
    extracted---------------------
    Mao was given instructions to reinforce her upper body from Prof. Yuasa and his staff, Faculty of Physical Education, Chukyo Univ., who have been supporting her since a year ago.
    One of her connections disclosed the recently instructed training menu which is to repeat continuously the bench press lifting with the same load as her own weight which is 47 kilograms.
    Asada has declared to go for quad loops and 3A-3T combos from this season. Though she has the lower body muscles equivalently strong as men's, she needs the strength of her upper body as well, to be able to sqeeze her arms inwards enough to accomplish those high-difficulty jumps. ...Prof. Yuasa's staff are analysing her videos and their progress in such studies should become a reliable support for Asada.

    3. Sponichi (March 26) "Mao hopes to land the first quad loop in history"
    This shows some difference from the Javno article that was linked from this forum.
    extracted---------------------
    "I hope to have more confidence in myself and make challenges aggressively. I'll work hard to do a quad next season, I wish to have it (in my program) and hopefully I'd be able to put a 3A-3T combo in as well."
    She did a triple axel (in Tokyo) to be the honorable second (female) skater after 17 years of no lady landing it in the Worlds, and also marked a world record score in the free program; however her (overall) medal was silver. It is told as information from her connections that she determined immediately after the Worlds to challenge herself to land quad loops next season. Quad loop, with the basic points of 10.0, is higher in difficulty than Ando's quad Salchow which gets 9.5 as basic points.
    Ratified quads in official games are only toe-loops and salchows, so if she succeeds, her quad loop will be the first in history.
    -------------------------------

    If I've not mistaken, Mao's above comments were repeated by herself (specifying quad "loop") in some of the TV news-show interviews, late evening of March 25.

    4. Sponichi (March 3,'06) "Mao challenges the first in history in her second Junior Worlds"
    Mao Asada left yesterday for Slovania where the Junior Worlds will start on the 6th.
    She is going to frighten the world by jumping a quad loop, more difficult than Ando's quad salchow. ...
    "I've practiced the quad a lot. I have my wish to land it, so if I can I'll go for it."...
    "She herself insists to jump it, so that why..." explains her coach Machiko Yamada. The quad loop comes in the biginning part, and the triple axel as well later in the program.

    Later information on the web is:
    This quad challenge was a "reward" for Mao who won the senior GPF in sensation.
    Ms.Yamada at the last moment stopped her.
    Mao lost her stability in her Junior Worlds as a consequence and came second after Yu-na.

    I recall reading remarks also on the web that it was, at that time, her good chance to jump a quad since FS in junior games are shorter in time compared to senior's, and the energy taken by doing the quad would show less effect within that shorter timeframe. (wonder if this true....)

    Of course there is none of my opinion in the above translations, I've just written them for curiosity (and as an exercise to get the rust off my English).
    Anyone having complaints on Mao's quad attempt, please approach Mr.Arutunian (or whoever).
    Last edited by sorcerer; 06-16-2007 at 11:53 AM. Reason: wrong past participle, etc

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    Mao publicly declares to put two 3As in FS in next season.
    And judging from the "next of 3A" commnent, I feel her 3A(combo) has already topped the level of confidence.
    As for quads, it seems a matter of a hope at this point.

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    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    i think that mao is just psyching out the competion. I doubt that she will try a quad in competion.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    The more one sees of the 'new tricks', the more they lose their WOW. How many of you still say WOW with a Bielman?

    Joe

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Well, I don't think we have become jaded yet with too many ladies doing quads. (Triple Axels? Yeah, that's old hat. ).

    But barring a revolt by the palace guard, it seems like we are stuck with the main feature of the CoP. Whatever is the hardest to do, that will get the most points.

    My question is, just because something is hard, does that by itself mean skaters should be encouraged by the judging system to do it? Is "difficult tricks" the essence of figure skating?

    This question is not rhetorical. There are many skating fans who say, "yes." If you do three quads and two triple Axels, obviously you are better than the guy who doesn't, and you deserve first prize.

    I am very much interested to see how audiences and fans will react to the new era. My prediction -- competitive skating will become more and more like the "extreme" teenage sports, like skateboarding, and will more and more appeal to the same audience.

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    nefertiti..reincarnate
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ...My question is, just because something is hard, does that by itself mean skaters should be encouraged by the judging system to do it? Is "difficult tricks" the essence of figure skating?
    It occupies close to half of all the essences of this sport, but of course not all, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ...I am very much interested to see how audiences and fans will react to the new era. My prediction -- competitive skating will become more and more like the "extreme" teenage sports, like skateboarding, and will more and more appeal to the same audience.
    I once thought that there'd be nothing wrong with banning ladies' quads, but then read (probably in this forum) someone's suggestion of not granting much gain in TES points for quads, and thought that's a better idea.

    But now I've come to think that TWO sets of medals should fit best the character of this sport.
    One for TES and one for PCS; any skater would want both, so those having good jumps will be given more motivation to get the other medal, rather than to compensate the shortage in presentation/artistry by going for harder jumps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    My question is, just because something is hard, does that by itself mean skaters should be encouraged by the judging system to do it? Is "difficult tricks" the essence of figure skating?
    Good question, MM!

    Sports that are judged (non racing) are based on form as well as difficulty. Diving, for example, a difficult trick without form will not get high scores. Diving tricks have base values also. However, it does not have to contend with music.

    Figure Skating and a few other Sports do use music, and rhythm is counted into the scores. However, in FS, the PCS scores are separate from the tech scores.
    I believe FS is the only sport with two separate judging systems to arrive at a total score.

    There have always been two separate sectors in scoring Figure Skating. The CoP has come up with more Rules and for the most part, they are 'Don't Rules"
    Figure Skating is no longer Free Skating but it continues to be a SPORT, and "artistic skating" belongs in SHOWS'. It is judged by artistic critics.

    I'm all for letting the difficulty clutter up the program, and let the Free Skating be shown at Exhibition Time.

    Joe

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    Arutunian's short comment on the NTV news

    "To get as much as we can get so that's a preparation.
    She will make a quadruple loop and maybe other quadruples.
    You(Mao) are going to win."

    Looks like their priority is on the quad LOOP.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Which coach would not say that about a top 10 skater?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sorcerer View Post
    But now I've come to think that TWO sets of medals should fit best the character of this sport. One for TES and one for PCS; any skater would want both, so those having good jumps will be given more motivation to get the other medal, rather than to compensate the shortage in presentation/artistry by going for harder jumps.
    That's an intriguing idea! I think what would happen, though, is that some skaters would become PCS specialists and just go for the second mark prizes. Yukina Ota, for instance.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    That's an intriguing idea! I think what would happen, though, is that some skaters would become PCS specialists and just go for the second mark prizes. Yukina Ota, for instance.
    Ota would win it, easily!

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    nefertiti..reincarnate
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Ota would win it, easily!
    Yay.

    Or there could be a "platinum medal" for the skater who made the highest overall (SP&LP) PCS marks, and invite him/her to the podium as well if he/she didn't get the other medal (gold. silver, bronze).
    This would gather the public (and fans', media's, ) attention to the more sophisticated side of this sport.
    And if things go very lucky, the objectivity in the PCS judging might improve in order to meet the consequent raise in demand for accountability.

    In any case, this "platinum medal" would counter-balance the fascination of a quad, won't it? If there's money to make those smaller free-skate medals, better invest it to this one instead, IMO.

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    Tripping on the Podium mirai_asada's Avatar
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    Mao doing a quad is exciting~! But if she can't keep her 3A consistent, how could she work on a quad now? *concerned*

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