What does Yu-Na Kim think of Caroline Zhang?
- Thread starter feraina
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According to WordNet, published by Princeton University:
"apparently"
adverb
1. from appearances alone;
2. unmistakably
I used "apparently" in its first definition; I apologize if that was not apparent to all and thought I had meant the second definition. I said "apparently" because the translation of the article in general was not stellar, and it's possible that Yu-na's original intentions might have been lost in translation. In particular, she might have meant "experience" where the translator used "talent." Personally I think she's under-estimating Caroline if she really thinks of her as having less talent than Fumie. It's possible that she really meant "experience", in which case I think all of us would agree that Caroline utterly lacks senior experience.
I like Yu-na's skating a lot, I think she has a natural feeling for the music and for expressing it (she supposedly didn't grow up with ballet lessons like Mao Asada and Caroline Z, and many of the other elite skaters), and of course I love her big 3/3's. I also said that she has always struck me as "humble, sweet, down-to-earth." I give her and the article the benefit of doubt that photo didn't come from interviewing her for the article, but rather... I'm guessing some Korean awards ceremony to honor her skating successes.
If Yu-na falls in her long program, as she has been doing last season, I think she'd get beaten by Caroline without a 3/3. If they both turn in perfect programs and Caro without a 3/3, then Yu-na will win. If Caro brings aboard a 3/3, as several (unconfirmed) rumors have been speculating she will, then I think it will be awfully close! Caroline has better spins, spirals, and artistry, Yu-na better footwork, interpretation, and higher jumps. It will be very exciting!
Well, folks, this happens all the time. Once a person reaches the top, vultures hang around looking for an opening to bring him/her down to their level. This is exactly what is happening here, folks.
Here is a 16-year old kid put on a spot by an obscure reporter who quoted her from "local media," and then some people take it too seriously as if something really happened.
I seriously question the intent and purposes of the original poster using words like "apparently," and "smug." I thought people lurking and posting in this site are all intelligent, and so they should know better than some folks have shown so far. I also heard that Japanese and Korean media are notorious for quoting out of the context to sell their papers.
Again I question the intent of the original poster. I wonder if she/he has any hidden agenda.
Metapour
Here is a 16-year old kid put on a spot by an obscure reporter who quoted her from "local media," and then some people take it too seriously as if something really happened.
I seriously question the intent and purposes of the original poster using words like "apparently," and "smug." I thought people lurking and posting in this site are all intelligent, and so they should know better than some folks have shown so far. I also heard that Japanese and Korean media are notorious for quoting out of the context to sell their papers.
Again I question the intent of the original poster. I wonder if she/he has any hidden agenda.
Metapour
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I don't know if that post was intended to be sarcastic, though...it hints at it IMO
At least she is being honest, though. Whether she is right or wrong remains to be seen. All I have to say though is that she'd better watch her back and not become complacent.
At least she is being honest, though. Whether she is right or wrong remains to be seen. All I have to say though is that she'd better watch her back and not become complacent.
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2006
Think backwards now.
What will YOU say when she wins CoC and possibly Worlds? I agree with Yu-Na in that article. If Kostner skates two perfect programs with a 3-3 in each, Yu-Na WILL have some competition. I thought Yu-Na was being quite genuine.
Caroline has better spins, spirals, and artistry, Yu-na better footwork, interpretation, and higher jumps. It will be very exciting!
IMO, Caroline has better spins and spirals, Yu Na better footwork, interpretation, artistry and higher jumps!
We know how artistry is subjective!
Reading it again, it seems as if she is right...Zhang is new to the scene and cannot necessarily be placed in any kind of context with the senior competitors...YET. But she'd have competed in SA by the time COC rolls around, so Yuna should have a better idea of how she compares to the rest of the field.
Actually, the article says that the quotes from Yu-na are sourced from her management agency -- if so, these remarks are presumably well-considered, rather than chance remarks when Yu-na was put on a spot. What the article says about the "local media" is that Caroline has the potential of being a dark horse. It's funny that over there in Korea they're worried about Caroline just as we here on this board has a whole long thread devoted to what to expect from her.
Korea Times is one of the leading national newspapers in Korea, its staff reporter may not be known outside Korea, but it is hardly "obscure" to the paper's mainly Korean audience. Maybe another reason why they haven't bothered to hire better English translators...
IMO, Caroline has better spins and spirals, Yu Na better footwork, interpretation, artistry and higher jumps!
We know how artistry is subjective!
Indeed.
Caroline & Yu-na are my two favorite competitive ladies skaters in terms of artistic presentation, but for very different reasons. Yu-na has a lot of natural talent for showcasing dramatic tensions in the music. Caroline, OTOH, is a sophisticated little ballerina, and has the rare and precious ability, through hard work or talent, to strike beautiful positions and make all her movements look flowing, effortless, natural. This is why I praised Yu-na for her "interpretation" and Caroline for her "artistry", words inadequate for expressing exactly what I mean.Of course in the consummate artist, you'd like to see both aspects mastered. I think Yu-na can benefit from some ballet lessons, while Caroline should just mature a little and let her personality, or the personality she's trying to portray, shine through.
Geesh... so much adversity in here for one comment.
Ok, my opinion:
Yu-Na has never competed against Caroline, and does not know how she will fare. Sure, she was great in the junior world, but seniors if often another story. She will, however, have the experience of Skate America, but, if Americans do what Canadians are said to do, the judges will slightly iflate her scores because she is American. Whatever happens at Skate America will, in my opinion, affect Caroline: if she lands on the podium, she'll have all the pressure in the world and I don't know how she'll handle it. If she ranks fairly low compared to what some are expecting, she'll probably work harder for Cup of China and get onto the podium. I think she lacks experience on the senior circuit, but then again so did Mao and Yu-Na...
I don't think Yu-Na was being rude, rather just estimating what competition might be like. As usual, I think time will tell and I will not pronounce myself on anything else until I see some competitions.
Kypma
Ok, my opinion:
Yu-Na has never competed against Caroline, and does not know how she will fare. Sure, she was great in the junior world, but seniors if often another story. She will, however, have the experience of Skate America, but, if Americans do what Canadians are said to do, the judges will slightly iflate her scores because she is American. Whatever happens at Skate America will, in my opinion, affect Caroline: if she lands on the podium, she'll have all the pressure in the world and I don't know how she'll handle it. If she ranks fairly low compared to what some are expecting, she'll probably work harder for Cup of China and get onto the podium. I think she lacks experience on the senior circuit, but then again so did Mao and Yu-Na...
I don't think Yu-Na was being rude, rather just estimating what competition might be like. As usual, I think time will tell and I will not pronounce myself on anything else until I see some competitions.
Kypma
Yu-Na
She fell TWICE at worlds, but the judges only rated her slightly behind Kimmie. IMHO, she's grossly overmarked.
I have a feeling she'll have a total meltdown this season despite all the hype. With such arrogant attitude, it's hard for me to shed any tears if she has a horrible season.
She fell TWICE at worlds, but the judges only rated her slightly behind Kimmie. IMHO, she's grossly overmarked.
I have a feeling she'll have a total meltdown this season despite all the hype. With such arrogant attitude, it's hard for me to shed any tears if she has a horrible season.
"Apparently" (here, I mean the 2nd definition you mentioned), the article came out from a bad translation. The translator should have said Caro and Fumie as more experienced than Caroline, not as more talented.
Local media has been interested in Yuna VS. Mao and they are now turning their attention from Yuna VS. the new hype Caroline since Mao and Yuna will not compete against each other unless they both make it to the Final. If a native Korean or those who are even familiar with the language read the original article, they will definitely know Yuna's comments are intended to express her respect for the experienced skaters rather than to show her ignorance about her young competitor. IMO, as she previously made some comments about Caroline being extremly flexible and expressive in her performances, she's just being cautious about her competitors and not letting the media fray her nerves.
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- Joined
- Aug 21, 2006
*sigh*
I'm curious, netnuts, what skaters do you LIKE?
I'd be sympathetic to them because they have such fans.
I'm curious, netnuts, what skaters do you LIKE?
I'd be sympathetic to them because they have such fans.
Thanks blueham, for your translation/interpretation, as well as filling us in on Korean media gossip.
Ok I'm sorry I called Yuna ignorant, I was in a tense mood and I didnt really read the article thoroughly. I've always viewed Yuna as a very sweet girl with no intention to really "attack" another skater. To be honest she's my 2nd favorite skater (1st being Caroline of course). I now feel as if her comment wasnt really saying how Caroline's skating was out of her league, but saying that Caroline is still a Junior skater and that she really doesnt know what to expect from the senior ladies. Hopefully after Skate America (which I get to go to
), Caroline will know how to compete with these senior ladies and compete consistantly.
), Caroline will know how to compete with these senior ladies and compete consistantly.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2006
Thank you for reminding us that what skaters say often get lost in translation. I always worried in the past about Maria Butyrskaya's words coming out harsher, when in fact, the translation might not be getting a lot of the true meaning.
I most recently competed at an international debate tournament, and while some debaters were sounding harsh, I had to remind myself that they're speaking in a second, or even third language.
Although I've read some interesting comments by Yeon-Ah on some articles (one where she talked about a JGP event, and she called her mother on the phone and said, "Mom, I cut those kids down to size!"), I am sure that when it makes its way from Korean to English, most of the meaning is lost. Not to mention, we don't really see the nonverbal gestures/inflections...
Basically, unless Yeon-Ah were speaking English like, say, Sarah or Michelle, we wouldn't know what she really meant. When Irina called Mao "just a child" last year, one also had to remember that she just got her behind kicked by this "child." I think this is perhaps Yeon-Ah's way of not getting psyched out by this next "it" child.
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2006
Thanks for reminding us that falling means everything! It's good to be as superficial as possible.
Kimmie lacks artistry, had a poor landing on her first Lutz, left out an entire Triple Toeloop, and underrotated the 3Toe she did attempt even more than usual (= negative GOE).
Yu-Na deserved to place ABOVE Kimmie in the LP and the only reason she didn't was because of a scoring error (she did a "4th" combination, which resulted in 0 points for her 3Sal...stupid things like this within the judging system need to be fixed).
~Z
No problem, I have also great difficulties to express with words when I have to analyze the artistry of skaters. Tell me if I understood it right what you mean = Yu Na is better at "interpretation", because she has great face language, energetic movements, great footwork. A great temperament on ice. BTW, her temperament in her SP reminded me of Sasha Cohen Malaguena and Dark Eyes. OTH Zhang has the soft balletic movements. So she is better at "artistry".
I think Caroline needs just too mature. IMO, she isn't mature enough (as every other 13 years old) to understand the feelings of a music such as Meditation. I didn't like her interpretation of her SP nor of her LP. It seemed that she didn't even like the music, it seemed it was forced, without feelings, without personality. So, I would like for the next season that she choose a music she likes and that she can be confortable to it. You Raise Me Up for her LP and Walking on Sunshine for her SP would have been great options instead of using them in exhibitions. In these way she could also show two different sides (a lyrical one and a more funny one). The important thing IMO is to skate to different kind of music, to show versatility in interpretation.
P.S. I hope that some "hardcore" Zhang fans calm down a little bit with saying she is better than that skater or offending other skaters. As I said in another thread I don't want to start dislike Caroline, just because of her fans.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
IMHO -
No skater needs ballet class. It's nice if they can squeeze it in along with their busy schedule of quad practice, school time, and family living. Besides, it will take 5 days a week and at least 3 years for ballet classes to produce anything of what you think as ballet. One class a week will NOT do it.
Anyone, not only skaters, can get a ballet exercise book and follow the directions of turning out knees and pointing toes. Skaters can also follow directions for ballet stretching which is important just before taking the ice.
What makes me like Yu Na is that when she does cross-overs the space between stroking is quite large and it just flows over the ice. They are not short choppy strokes. Yu Na flows, imo, better than anyone else. Will she win? Of course not, the skater with the quad will win.
Joe
No skater needs ballet class. It's nice if they can squeeze it in along with their busy schedule of quad practice, school time, and family living. Besides, it will take 5 days a week and at least 3 years for ballet classes to produce anything of what you think as ballet. One class a week will NOT do it.
Anyone, not only skaters, can get a ballet exercise book and follow the directions of turning out knees and pointing toes. Skaters can also follow directions for ballet stretching which is important just before taking the ice.
What makes me like Yu Na is that when she does cross-overs the space between stroking is quite large and it just flows over the ice. They are not short choppy strokes. Yu Na flows, imo, better than anyone else. Will she win? Of course not, the skater with the quad will win.
Joe
