Yu-Na Kim: Are all her problems at bay?
- Thread starter zephyrskates
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- Mar 30, 2006
Oops, you're right, I had an extra 2T in my calculation.
Another 3F wouldn't be worth more if the value of the Flip was properly switched with the Loop, however.
You have pointed out another flaw of the system too. Jumps done in combination should be getting a BONUS. Apparently there was concern about jumps being worth too much when they were making the system if combinations got a bonus, but that's a rather bad explaination. The values of the jumps themselves should just be dropped a bit to compensate. It's already pretty silly that a 3Toe is worth more than a Level 4 Step Sequence anyway...
~Z
Another 3F wouldn't be worth more if the value of the Flip was properly switched with the Loop, however.
You have pointed out another flaw of the system too. Jumps done in combination should be getting a BONUS. Apparently there was concern about jumps being worth too much when they were making the system if combinations got a bonus, but that's a rather bad explaination. The values of the jumps themselves should just be dropped a bit to compensate. It's already pretty silly that a 3Toe is worth more than a Level 4 Step Sequence anyway...
~Z
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- May 2, 2007
- Joined
- May 2, 2007
back to the thread.. i was examining kim's jump layout this past season and i do believe that there is definitely room for improvement.. (like everybody else on tour)
i just hope that orser and a technical specialist arranged her jumps differently this season to further maximize points... i have no problems with her having 3 double axels coz i hardly notice it for i am usually in awe of her (biased! hahaha.)
but isn't a 3sal worth more than a 2axel.. and she only does one 3sal... maybe opt out of the last 2axel and put in a 3sal instead..and put in another 3flip and drop yet again the other 2axel. but this may pose problems to her stamina..
i'm just crossing my fingers that she will have another wonderful season.
i just hope that orser and a technical specialist arranged her jumps differently this season to further maximize points... i have no problems with her having 3 double axels coz i hardly notice it for i am usually in awe of her (biased! hahaha.)
but isn't a 3sal worth more than a 2axel.. and she only does one 3sal... maybe opt out of the last 2axel and put in a 3sal instead..and put in another 3flip and drop yet again the other 2axel. but this may pose problems to her stamina..
i'm just crossing my fingers that she will have another wonderful season.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Actually, her jump layout last year wasn't bad in terms of maximizing points. Her first two elements were 3F+3T (9.5) and 2A+3T (7.5, the same as a triple Axel). At Worlds, she also got a total of 4.58 GOE (the equivalent of an extra triple Salchow) on her first three elements.
On her second double Axel she got 1.29 GOE, which this year would give her a 4.79, compared with 4.50 for a triple Salchow with 0 GOE.
Anyway, with the jump layout that she had last year, no, she could not have replaced one of her double Axels with an extra Salchow or an extra flip because of Zayak rules. She already has 2 Lutzes and two triple toes (at the end of her combos), so she cannot repeat any other triple jump.
This is the point that Zuranthium is making. If you load up with triple-triples, that doesn't give you any more points than if you did the jumps separately. But your reward is, you get to throw in a couple of extra 2A's in the jumping passes that you saved.
For Yu-na really to take a giant step forward she would need to change her 3F+3T to a 3F+3Lo. Now she's in business. Not only does she have a higher scoring combo, but also she gets rid of that extra 3T. Now she could do another flip at the end instead of her third 2A.
This would be a killer program.
And it's so easy to do sitting here at the keyboard!
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- Joined
- Mar 30, 2006
LOL, seriously. People forget about how difficult this really is.
Of course it's just as difficult to have a beautiful, intricate program in addition to the elements.
Which is why you need the technical AND the artistic to be a real champion.
~Z
Of course it's just as difficult to have a beautiful, intricate program in addition to the elements.
Which is why you need the technical AND the artistic to be a real champion.
~Z
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2007
My only wish, in terms of Yuna's jump technics or layout, is that she could get her 3loop jump back. Apparently 3loop is her weakest, and I sense she has somewhat a fear of that particular jump.
After Worlds, she repeatedly spoke to Korean media that she will make an effort to stablize her 3loop, and in recent interview Orser told she is getting her 3loop under control.
It will be a great joy to see her have 5 triple jumps in competitions, and I'm sure she can have a diverse strategy regarding jumps layout and its points with that.
After Worlds, she repeatedly spoke to Korean media that she will make an effort to stablize her 3loop, and in recent interview Orser told she is getting her 3loop under control.
It will be a great joy to see her have 5 triple jumps in competitions, and I'm sure she can have a diverse strategy regarding jumps layout and its points with that.
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- May 2, 2007
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- Jul 26, 2003
Yu Na Kim! (You're one of the very few.)
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
And from what I read somewhere, a solo triple loop!!!
Joe
Joe
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2006
This would be the best layout for Yu-Na, with the current rules:
3Lo
3F + 3T
3S
----------
3Lz+2Lo+2Lo
3Lz
2A + 2A sequence
3F
Putting the Loop first is a smart idea for skaters who have a tough time with it. Not only because you're less tired but also because the long set-up is less of a detraction from the program (since the mood/feeling of any audience before the first jump of the LP is one of anticipation).
I really dislike it when people do 2T + 2T or 2Lo + 2Lo as the jumps for their 3-jump combination, though. There needs to be a rule that the 3rd jump in your 3-jump combination/sequence gets downgraded if it is the same as the second jump. It just doesn't look good. Did ANYONE ever do that kind of combination before CoP? No, because it's repetitive and pointless.
~Z
3Lo
3F + 3T
3S
----------
3Lz+2Lo+2Lo
3Lz
2A + 2A sequence
3F
Putting the Loop first is a smart idea for skaters who have a tough time with it. Not only because you're less tired but also because the long set-up is less of a detraction from the program (since the mood/feeling of any audience before the first jump of the LP is one of anticipation).
I really dislike it when people do 2T + 2T or 2Lo + 2Lo as the jumps for their 3-jump combination, though. There needs to be a rule that the 3rd jump in your 3-jump combination/sequence gets downgraded if it is the same as the second jump. It just doesn't look good. Did ANYONE ever do that kind of combination before CoP? No, because it's repetitive and pointless.
~Z
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
And from what I read somewhere, a solo triple loop!!!
The last time Kim did a triple loop was in the 2005 junior grand prix finals. By the time junior worlds rolled around, she couldn't do it any more because of her back, so she had to substitute a third double axel in place of the solo triple loop. (This sacrificed 1.7 points but she won anyway.)Zuranthium said:
She did not do a triple loop, solo or in combo, in any of her performances in the 2006-07 season. From the interviews given in the first two pages of this thread, it looks like she is still nursing her back to some extent, taking it one day at a time. I really don't expect to see a triple loop from her next season.
Or has there been a more optimistic report from her training camp this summer?
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
In fact, tacking a 2Lo (even just one) on the end of anything looks stupid. They just kind of pop up in the air and come back down in the same place.
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- Mar 30, 2006
+2Lo looks good to me. It's a smoother transition for the combination jump than a 2T is since you are not reaching back with the free foot. Double up on either of them and I totally yawn, though.
~Z
~Z
I agree with you Mathman, because what I hate about loops is that, even when done correctly (I'm thinking of Mao Asada's, which is my favourite out of all of them), it looks like the skaters don't even have time to land properly before jumping up again out of nowhere. I like the tiny 'pause', due to reaching back, between jumps for combinations with a toe loop afterwards. I do also agree, however, that doubles, especially with toe loops, seem so small... triples just make the whole combination look more balanced. The double toes often look like tiny things compared to the first jump, and look really easy, almost effortless, so why not go for the triple? (Especially in Sasha Cohen's case, because there are videos that show that she once did master 3Lz+3T)
Kypma
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2006
Cohen never mastered the 3Lz + 3T. If she had, we would have seen it in competition more. She only ever landed it once that I know of and let's not forget that she didn't have a REAL Lutz.
~Z
~Z
Just FYI...this isn't international competition, but Yu-Na landed a very nice triple loop as part of a seven-triple performance at Korean nationals in 2006 during the free skate. It's the first jump.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_dE0C5p_mNw
I think the jump layout here is:
3R
3F-3T
3F (off the flat/slight lip)
---halfway---
2A-3T-2T (from Ina Bauer)
3S-2T
2A (cool entrance)
3Lz
Not one of her best performances by any stretch...her spins were quite slow, the 3-3 was not as good as usual and she didn't emote much. However, she has done all five triples in a program.
Also, I'm pretty sure that the loop doesn't have to do with her back or anything. She attempted it in qualifying at 2006 Jr. Worlds and fell, which is why she substituted the 2A in the FS. It's simply her worst jump and she probably doesn't feel it's worth it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_dE0C5p_mNw
I think the jump layout here is:
3R
3F-3T
3F (off the flat/slight lip)
---halfway---
2A-3T-2T (from Ina Bauer)
3S-2T
2A (cool entrance)
3Lz
Not one of her best performances by any stretch...her spins were quite slow, the 3-3 was not as good as usual and she didn't emote much. However, she has done all five triples in a program.
Also, I'm pretty sure that the loop doesn't have to do with her back or anything. She attempted it in qualifying at 2006 Jr. Worlds and fell, which is why she substituted the 2A in the FS. It's simply her worst jump and she probably doesn't feel it's worth it.
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Thanks so much for the link! I had never seen this performance.
Makes me appreciate her all the more, when you realize how much we take for granted in the US (and I dare say Canada, Japan, etc.) in terms of facilities, crowds, support, etc. Makes me admire her even more...
Makes me appreciate her all the more, when you realize how much we take for granted in the US (and I dare say Canada, Japan, etc.) in terms of facilities, crowds, support, etc. Makes me admire her even more...
I believe what you called a 3F (solo) was a 3Lz, and what you called a 3Lz is actually a flip. In any case, the two jumps had exactly the same entrance: LBO->LBI->LBO (slight). No wonder all the confusion...
I like the theory that it's her worst jump and usually it's not worth the risk -- when she has a very secure 2A that gets high + GOE. Perhaps she wanted to try out the 3Lp in competition, and Korean national's is a good venue since she'd probably win even if she fell on it.
I like the theory that it's her worst jump and usually it's not worth the risk -- when she has a very secure 2A that gets high + GOE. Perhaps she wanted to try out the 3Lp in competition, and Korean national's is a good venue since she'd probably win even if she fell on it.
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