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Thread: Technical content disparity in ladies skating

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    Technical content disparity in ladies skating

    I think that in the last year or so technical disparities between the top 5 ladies skaters and the rest have made podium finishes impossible for those out of the top 5.

    In the 1990s, a slew of ladies competitors had the triple-doubles and single triple jumps needed for a podium finish. A lady who was in 11th or 9th place at one Worlds could move up into the top 5 simply by completing all of her jumps successfully.

    Now, many ladies won't be able to make it into the top 5 even if they complete a perfect program.. Imagine Alyssa Czisny having an absolute perfect skate at Worlds. She completes 7 triples with two triple-double combinations in both short and long program. With not a single mistake on any of her jumps, she would still not make the top 5 or 6! That's because the other ladies with triple-triples will come out on top of her. You could apply the same formula to Sarah Meier and Joannie Rochette who will never ever make the podium no matter how flawless their programs are. The triple-triple gap is too difficult to compensate for with other jumps or program components.. Beautiful spirals, Ina Bauers, and spins won't make the difference. Neither will choreography.

    That said, I hope the next generation of ladies skaters will have triple-triples at their disposal so that they have even a remote chance of making the podium or top 5 that most of today's ladies cannot. Most ladies competitors of today are behind their time. They cannot dream of medals but only of a top 10 finish. The best example of that is Fumie Suguri. This three-time World medalist wouldn't make the top 5 even at her best even though she has been competitive before.

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    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    but, all Alyssa and her perfect skate need is for a couple of the top ladies to falter... which most of the time the bigger the arsenal... the bigger the 'fall' in standings when mistakes begin to happen.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Toni makes a good point. No matter how many triple Axels you have planned, you still have to land them.

    Actually, though, it is the same in every sport. Some athletes are better than others. Roger Federer is going to win Wimbledon because he is better than anyone else.

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    Sarah Meier and Joannie Rochette have yet to skate a clean FS at a major international event. That is the reason they haven't made the podium, not the lack of a 3/3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by krenseby View Post
    The best example of that is Fumie Suguri. This three-time World medalist wouldn't make the top 5 even at her best even though she has been competitive before.
    She would have taken Bronze at this past World Championship if she had skated her best (this conclusion was come to by looking at her Scores from 2006 Worlds and assuming that she hadn't made any mistakes on the jumps...her total score would have surpassed Yu-Na Kim's).

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Sarah Meier and Joannie Rochette have yet to skate a clean FS at a major international event. That is the reason they haven't made the podium, not the lack of a 3/3.
    I do think Meier deserve Bronze at 2006 Worlds, though! Cohen was very, very lucky to be gifted with that medal after her worst performance ever...
    Last edited by GoldMedalist; 07-07-2007 at 06:52 PM.

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    Moving up the testing structure Kypma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldMedalist View Post
    She would have taken Bronze at this past World Championship if she had skated her best (this conclusion was come to by looking at her Scores from 2006 Worlds and assuming that she hadn't made any mistakes on the jumps...her total score would have surpassed Yu-Na Kim's).
    Maybe, but Fumie didn't even get to go to Worlds 2007 because Japan has so many strong ladies that Mao, Miki and Yukari got to go... and all placed top five, if I'm not mistaken. Although top three, if you assumption about Fumie is right, would have been awesome to see.
    Kypma

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    ~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~ Ladskater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krenseby View Post
    You could apply the same formula to Sarah Meier and Joannie Rochette who will never ever make the podium no matter how flawless their programs are. .

    Never is a long time!!!! How do you know? Do you have a crystal ball?

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    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    There was the same complaint of disparity between the top 4-5 men and the rest of the field a few years ago with quad jumps.

    I will say, that US Adult Nationals proved to me that you don't have to have the highest technical mark to win overall if the judges are doing their job correctly. In one of the Championship events, the lady that won overall had the third or fourth highest tech mark but was marked very clearly higher than everyone else in PCS (and rightly so as she was LOVELY and deserved to win overall). Her differential in the PCS mark was around 6 or 7 points! I know, the tech mark there is MUCH lower, but 6-7 points on PCS is a HUGE differential (especially when the tech mark is that low (~13.5))!
    Last edited by mskater93; 07-08-2007 at 02:36 PM. Reason: Differential for programs

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    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    For the last decade or so we have been predicting that so and so needs a triple-triple to win and miss so and so will win becasue of her triple triple. Up until this year it hasn't really been the case. the girls who planned the 3/3's fell, or didn't do them, or were injured or whatever. But this year what we predicted came true. Mao did not do a triple triple in the SP at worlds, thus she did not win. Kimmie did a triple triple at nationals so she did. The riegn of the triple triple has begun.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    I'm with you, Krenesby. Jumps rule with one convoluted spin. There are about 5 ladies who can manage these feats. Even if two falter, there still is no room for the podium of others and more than likely the two falterees will be 4th and 5th. That's the way it is in Skateland.

    Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Toni makes a good point. No matter how many triple Axels you have planned, you still have to land them.

    Actually, though, it is the same in every sport. Some athletes are better than others. Roger Federer is going to win Wimbledon because he is better than anyone else.
    I too agree with Toni - and we could likely compare today's bunch of technically amazing skaters to, say Harding and Ito's era....and notice that they didn't always win either!

    So - a hearty and most deserved congrats to 5 consecutive Winbeldon winner Roger Federer (ok, that wasn't exactly grammatical, was it?)...but, Rafa Nadal sure deserves - imo - a round of applause too - wow!!!

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emma View Post
    ]...but, Rafa Nadal sure deserves - imo - a round of applause too - wow!!!
    For a minute there I thought I was going to have to eat my words, LOL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    For a minute there I thought I was going to have to eat my words, LOL.
    LOL - funny thing was I was like - OMG NADAL Is going for a total upset - and I was so suddenly torn - who to route for ??!!!??? Federer is awesome and has to break the five strait record next year (so needed this year to do it) - but Nadal is unbelievable - (and not too hard on the eys if I may say so myself)...anyway, this is too off topic....(but, VENUS WILLIAMS ....!!!!!)

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    Yeah! Lets get this party started. enlight78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emma View Post
    LOL - funny thing was I was like - OMG NADAL Is going for a total upset - and I was so suddenly torn - who to route for ??!!!??? Federer is awesome and has to break the five strait record next year (so needed this year to do it) - but Nadal is unbelievable - (and not too hard on the eys if I may say so myself)...anyway, this is too off topic....(but, VENUS WILLIAMS ....!!!!!)
    I felt so sorry for Nadal. He work so hard and was so close. I couldn't stand watching him with his head down. GOOOOOO VENUS QUEEN OF WIMBLEDON.

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    Tanguera feraina's Avatar
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    I too felt so bad for Rafa. You could just feel the disappointment oozing out of him, and how hard it was for him to sound upbeat and sportsman-like to give that speech at the awards ceremony. I don't blame him either, because he was SO close in taking that 5th set. I felt a lot of fire went out of him when he had that knee problem, and even though afterwards physically he may have recovered, mentally he seemed to have lost a lot of mentum... He was still bitter-sounding later on in the press conf. I hope he got some much deserved beach, sun, and rest in Mallorca afterwards like he's planned!

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