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Thread: Mission accomplished - Aliona Savchenko and Robin Szolkowy

  1. #31
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    I don't think Shen & Zhao got a bronze gift in SLC. Totmianina & Marinin were in fourth and deservedly so - i don't think they did anything to merit moving past Shen & Zhao in the free, Kyoko & Ina were 5th and they certaintly did not skate well enough to move into third in the FS
    ITA. IN SLC T&M had decent technical content, but their artistry was non-existent. That - they acquired later on, with Vasiliev and world class choreographers.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    I don't think Shen & Zhao got a bronze gift in SLC. Totmianina & Marinin were in fourth and deservedly so - i don't think they did anything to merit moving past Shen & Zhao in the free, Kyoko & Ina were 5th and they certaintly did not skate well enough to move into third in the FS - their skating skills alone were not good enough to move above Totmianina & Marinin or Shen & Zhao.

    Ant
    I agree. Shen Zhou had a wobbly outing, but Totmianina and Marinin did not have a good performance that night either. Ina and Zimmerman skated well but they simply dont have the basics and technical strength of the other 2 teams. I agreed with the placements of everyone, other then debating the first 2.

  3. #33
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by slutskayafan21 View Post
    I agree. Shen Zhou had a wobbly outing, but Totmianina and Marinin did not have a good performance that night either. Ina and Zimmerman skated well but they simply dont have the basics and technical strength of the other 2 teams. I agreed with the placements of everyone, other then debating the first 2.
    Call me crazy, but I have no problem placing the top five exactly as they finished that night . Although, I think I'dbe more inclined to put I&Z ahead of T&M, but eh they had less technical difficulty , weak SBS spins and their throws were so low and forward, even though they won over the crowd. T&M were slow and blah , but I&Z weren't exactly speed skaters under the best of circumstances either.

    Although, I will admit I&Z's program was considerably more interesting, and their lifts were actually much better than T&M's and S&Z's hmmm...
    I also have to admit, S&Z did have the fall on the quad throw, all three of their lifts came down early with Shen falling out of the first one , and they spun in different parts of the rink andout of synchronization on their SBS . I think a judge could have justified not putting them on the podium, but seeing as how that was the one unanimous decision in the top 10 by all 9 judges that night , I think their bronze was perfectly warranted
    Last edited by escaflowne9282; 07-25-2007 at 12:23 AM.

  4. #34
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    I&Z had that magic touch of Moskvina. Thinking about that competition, I hardly believe T&M were actually there. I reiterate, S&Z got the gift of bronze and don't forget the rumor about the scandal.

    Joe

  5. #35
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I&Z had that magic touch of Moskvina. Thinking about that competition, I hardly believe T&M were actually there. I reiterate, S&Z got the gift of bronze and don't forget the rumor about the scandal.

    Joe
    Sorry Joe i don't understand your seemingly cryptic statement - care to shed a greater light? Do you think I&Z should have won the bronze? Why do you think that S&Z's bronze was a gift because of the scandal about gold and silver?

    Ant

  6. #36
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    S&Z did not have a lock on the bronze in SLC. They were an up and coming Pairs team that looked good for the future. Big throws and that's all.

    If the Chinese Judge would give B&S a gold vote, the Russian judge would give S&Z a bronze vote. This was a security measure.

    And it was only a rumour going around at the time.

    Joe

  7. #37
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    If the Chinese Judge would give B&S a gold vote, the Russian judge would give S&Z a bronze vote. This was a security measure.
    Joe, here are the marks from SLC pairs free - http://www.icecalc.com/events/owg200...lts/SEG006.HTM. ALL the judges put S&Z in 3d. It was indeed close (5:4) between T&M and I&Z, which is understandable as the former were technically stronger but the latter more exciting. The most "off" judges were Canada and Russia - Lavoie putting T&M in 7th, and Sanaya put I&Z in 6th.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Thanks Ptichka. I never did look at the scores. just read the rumor.

    Joe

  9. #39
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    S&Z did not have a lock on the bronze in SLC. They were an up and coming Pairs team that looked good for the future. Big throws and that's all.

    If the Chinese Judge would give B&S a gold vote, the Russian judge would give S&Z a bronze vote. This was a security measure.

    And it was only a rumour going around at the time.

    Joe
    OK i see that now - i think Ptchika has shown the scores that show that the rumour wasn't really well founded.

    Also i think S&Z were more than an up and comming couple with only big throws. S&Z were competing in their second Olympics in SLC (having come 5th in Nagano after Ina & Dunjgen) and by SLC they were the only couple even vaguely stong enough to compete with B&S and S&P. By then they had improved some of their presentation but had mostly focussed on the technical - including lifts and spins.

    Ant

  10. #40
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Thanks Ptichka. I never did look at the scores. just read the rumor.
    The truth of the matter is, it is likely there was such a deal. Chinese federation might have been unsure about S&Z, and could want shoring up; it could well agree to support the Russian team in return for Russians voting for S&Z over T&M. However, even if there were such a deal, it was not necessary - on that night, S&Z skated to a very solid bronze.

  11. #41
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptichka View Post
    The truth of the matter is, it is likely there was such a deal. Chinese federation might have been unsure about S&Z, and could want shoring up; it could well agree to support the Russian team in return for Russians voting for S&Z over T&M. However, even if there were such a deal, it was not necessary - on that night, S&Z skated to a very solid bronze.
    It was not necessary for Shen and Zhao. But, as it turned out, it was certainly necessary for Bereshnaya and Sikharudlidze. Without the vote of the Chinese judge for the Russians, the Canadian team would have won regardless of what the French judge did.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    It was not necessary for Shen and Zhao. But, as it turned out, it was certainly necessary for Bereshnaya and Sikharudlidze. Without the vote of the Chinese judge for the Russians, the Canadian team would have won regardless of what the French judge did.
    I think that was what started the rumor.

    Joe

  13. #43
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptichka View Post
    The truth of the matter is, it is likely there was such a deal. Chinese federation might have been unsure about S&Z, and could want shoring up; it could well agree to support the Russian team in return for Russians voting for S&Z over T&M. However, even if there were such a deal, it was not necessary - on that night, S&Z skated to a very solid bronze.
    That is ridiculous! S&Z were pretty much a lock for the bronze in SLC,they were GPF champions in 1999, world medalists for the 3 years prior, and were generally considered in a completely different league from T&M and I&Z at that point in time. They were also very consistent skaters, and had always performed well under pressure. Barring a total apocalyptic meltdown, they were going home with bronze and there was no real reason for anyone to doubt that.

    Aside from that ,the Chinese judge on that night who voted for B&S ,also supported I&Z over T&M, which makes it unlikely (to me anyway) that he was in anyone's pocket. To me, that vote is a bigger shock, because the Chinese have generally been considered part of the Eastern block from the get-go (Bauil-Kerrigan 1994) .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    S&Z did not have a lock on the bronze in SLC. They were an up and coming Pairs team that looked good for the future. Big throws and that's all.

    If the Chinese Judge would give B&S a gold vote, the Russian judge would give S&Z a bronze vote. This was a security measure.

    And it was only a rumour going around at the time.

    Joe
    I definitely dont feel Shen/Zhou were an "up and coming" pair by the time of the 2002 Olympics. They had already medaled at 3 straight Worlds, 2 silver and 1 bronze, and won 2 GP finals. They had not been off the podium in any competition since 1998 in fact. They were heavy favorites for the bronze, and they were not up and coming at that point, even though they did improve a great deal after SLC.

    Totmianina/Marinin were actually much more up and coming then Shen/Zhou at the time of the 2002 Olympics. They had been near the top a much shorter time and would actually be much more of a threat to Shen/Zhou in future years then they were in 2002.

    As for Ina/Zimmerman they were considered major long shots for a
    medal at best. Anything that potrayed them as more was mass U.S media hype. Shen/Zhou were the heavy favorites for the bronze like I said, and Totmianina/Marinin were the only other ones considered to have any shot of it really. Ina/Zimmerman medaling would have been a major shock.

  15. #45
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    Shen and Zhao had a really good perfomance in 2002. if they had done the throw triple instead of the quad it would have been perfect. ( i still insist that she landed that quad and had a freak fall afterwards.) True, it was not as heartfelt and strong as thier performance the following year at worlds, but thier artisty was still budding. They deffinetly deserved a medal.

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