Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 66

Thread: Is Worlds "unfair" to individual skaters?

  1. #1
    Yeah! Lets get this party started. enlight78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,029

    Is Worlds "unfair" to individual skaters?

    I don't like the idea of the possibility of a person making it to worlds depend on how somebody else performed last year. It really contradicts the idea of figure skating being an individual sport. I would feel better if the top 24 ranked elligable players automatically quallified and there was 24 more spots open that other skaters can earn in a qualifying round. That way skaters will make Worlds completely on their own account.

  2. #2
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,616
    I think I know what you are asking ( I think ). If Skater A is the 3rd best in Canada, and is decidedly better than Skater B, who is the best in Slovakia, than Skater B will go to Worlds rather than the superior Skater A. And you think Skater A should go instead. Is that right?

  3. #3
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    4,430
    Not only does it depend on how others skate, it also depends on the whim of the federation. I think having 24 top ranked skaters qualify automatically is a bit too much, but having top 10 qualify automatically would sound great to me (and it would raise the importance of rankings); the only question is - how many ADDITIONAL skaters can a country send. Take the following example: say US has qualified to send 3 skaters to the Worlds. And say Cohen, Meissner, and Hughes are all in top 10. Does it mean US can send 3 MORE skaters, for a total of 6? Or does it mean that no one else from US can go?

    In general, I'd like to see top 10 or so skaters in each discipline essentially have contracts with ISU as opposed to their federations. This would include a different type of contract for GP events, more akin to what those skaters are used to from other quarters - guaranteed money regardless of placement, yet heavy fines for not showing up for any reason including medical.

    The reason I think this would be a good idea is that the participation of those skaters increases viewership. Take the following example. At the last Olympics, USFSA could have well decided not to send Kwan. I know in case of Kwan she wasn't exactly a top ranked world skater anymore, but the point is that even if it were not in USFSA's interest to have her compete, it was in the ISU's.

  4. #4
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    I like the concept that Figure Skating is or should be a Sport for individuals.

    However, the media has made it a Sport of Nationalities - wrong, in my view.

    The Federations tend to go with what is best for the Nationality and not particularly for the individual skater.

    We have to live with this.

    Joe

  5. #5
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Kenai, AK
    Posts
    18,666
    the media made it that way? the ISU is the one who governs the sport as a whole and each country has it's own little entity... seems to me teh sport had a lot to do with how this is run

    I think this system works, otherwise there'd be about 3 countries that dominated and the other countries wouldn't have a chance at all

  6. #6
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    2,051
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    ... I think this system works, otherwise there'd be about 3 countries that dominated and the other countries wouldn't have a chance at all
    ITA! Could someone explain to me how, under a procedure that is more "fair" to individuals, some one like Kim Yu-Na "breaks into" the top ranks as the first from her country to do so?

  7. #7
    Yeah! Lets get this party started. enlight78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,029
    Quote Originally Posted by PolymerBob View Post
    I think I know what you are asking ( I think ). If Skater A is the 3rd best in Canada, and is decidedly better than Skater B, who is the best in Slovakia, than Skater B will go to Worlds rather than the superior Skater A. And you think Skater A should go instead. Is that right?
    Yes that is about right.

  8. #8
    Yeah! Lets get this party started. enlight78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,029
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    the media made it that way? the ISU is the one who governs the sport as a whole and each country has it's own little entity... seems to me teh sport had a lot to do with how this is run

    I think this system works, otherwise there'd be about 3 countries that dominated and the other countries wouldn't have a chance at all
    I think it would be better if the ISU would send experince coaches to developing countries like India to improve their skating program instead of throwing atheletes into compitions their not ready for. I think that runs a greater risk of discouraging the skaters instead improving their quality. Most of ones learning shouldn't come from tapes and watching skaters practice and compition.

  9. #9
    Yeah! Lets get this party started. enlight78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,029
    Quote Originally Posted by Ptichka View Post
    Not only does it depend on how others skate, it also depends on the whim of the federation. I think having 24 top ranked skaters qualify automatically is a bit too much, but having top 10 qualify automatically would sound great to me (and it would raise the importance of rankings); the only question is - how many ADDITIONAL skaters can a country send. Take the following example: say US has qualified to send 3 skaters to the Worlds. And say Cohen, Meissner, and Hughes are all in top 10. Does it mean US can send 3 MORE skaters, for a total of 6? Or does it mean that no one else from US can go?
    Well I was thinking of completely droping the process of using past World Championship Standings and Nationals as a deterimination of qualification. Outside the top ten who autiomatically qualified, All federations would send up three skaters per discipline (if they have that many). The 40 skaters with the highest point total will go on and skate the short program and long with the top ten ranked

  10. #10
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,616
    How about this? Make national championships ISU approved events with an international panel of judges. That way, fair compairsons can be made as to the quality of the skaters. A superstar like Yu-Na would still have a chance to shine.

  11. #11
    Yeah! Lets get this party started. enlight78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,029
    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    ITA! Could someone explain to me how, under a procedure that is more "fair" to individuals, some one like Kim Yu-Na "breaks into" the top ranks as the first from her country to do so?
    If they did well Grand prix events and competitions like 4CC then their World Rank will be high enough to automatinlly quallify for Worlds Championships no matter how they peform at nationals.

  12. #12
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    the media made it that way? the ISU is the one who governs the sport as a whole and each country has it's own little entity... seems to me teh sport had a lot to do with how this is run

    I think this system works, otherwise there'd be about 3 countries that dominated and the other countries wouldn't have a chance at all
    this proves my point that the set up is geared to Nationalities and not the Best Skaters.

    and the American media has a lot to say about that!!!

    Joe

  13. #13
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    Lots of suggestions to improve the system, but the bottom line is which skaters are the best in the world. duh. That's what competition is all about. Who cares what their nationalities are?

    Joe

  14. #14
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,357
    This question is all the more intriguing to me because of the politics involved. Any move toward giving the ISU more direct contact with and control over individual skaters will risk running into two roadblocks.

    First, as Toni mentions, ever since it's founding in 1892 as a confederation of 15 European skating organizations, the ISU has existed primarily as a forum where representatives of National Federations can get together to establish uniform rules for the sport, etc.

    No individual skater -- not even Sonia Henie -- has ever been a "member" of the ISU.

    For this to change, and for the ISU to allow skaters to qualify for ISU championships directly without going through their federations, would mean that the fedeartions would be turning over the majority of their power to the central ISU administration (Cinquanta and his staff). The federations -- especially the smaller ones -- would have a lot to lose and little to gain by doing this.

    (On the other hand, the ISU Judging System has already taken away the lion's share of influence from the judges nominated by the member federations and given it to the technical panel which is appointed directly by the ISU. So maybe Cinquanta is trying to move things in this direction anyway.)

    The second problem is that, for better or for worse, figure skating sees itself as an "Olympic sport." The IOC does not invite individual athletes to compete in the Olympics. Rather, each country sends a team in the hope of winning more medals that the other guys do.

    The rules are set so that each country, not each individual athlete, is allowed to participate on an equal footing.

    All of which doesn't mean that big changes are impossible. Just that there is a lot of inertia to overcome if someone really did want to bring about a new way of looking at things.

  15. #15
    ~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~ Ladskater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    4,711
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I like the concept that Figure Skating is or should be a Sport for individuals.

    However, the media has made it a Sport of Nationalities - wrong, in my view.

    The Federations tend to go with what is best for the Nationality and not particularly for the individual skater.

    We have to live with this.

    Joe
    Unfortunately the competive side of figure skating has always been about a countries Nationalism. On the other hand, Figure Skating as a whole - generally speaking - has always been a sport for individuals. Of course, it's ones country that the indvidual skater is representing so it's a bit of a two way street. Skate Canada, for example, sends its best skaters to compete at home in the Nationals and internationally. At the same time they support the skaters and give them the training and direction needed. The skater's pay back by representing their country. However, the skaters also gain as individuals by their experiences and medals and titles earned. So really competitive figure skating in the end benefits both the skater and his/her country.

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •