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Thread: Unsuccessful material

  1. #46
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldMedalist View Post
    In GPF 00 Slutskaya did a 3Lutz/3Loop and a 3Sal/3Loop (along with 4 more Triples) in her LP to beat MK. Slutskaya has never beat Michelle at a competition where Michelle landed more Triples.
    It was the next year, the 2001-02 season GP final, where Michelle landed 6 triples to Irina's four, but the judges gave it to Irina.

    Kwan did 3Lo, 3T+2T, 3Lz+2Lo, 2A, 3F, 3S, 3Lz, 3T (fall) = 6 clean triples.

    Slute did 3Lz+2T (step between), 3S+2Lo, 2Lz, 2Lo, 3F (step out), 2A, 3T = four triples.

    The Slute judges were Russia, Ukraine, Bulgaria, and Germany.

    The Kwan judges were U.S., Canada, and Japan.

    All of the Kwan judges had Michelle first, Sarah Hughes (7 triples!) second, and Irina third.

  2. #47
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    Oh, wow, I didn't know about that one. What ridiculous judging!

    Although, that incident would have happened AFTER Skate Canada when Kwan attempted her dual 3/3Loop combos.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    We can't really say that MK was a CoP skater. At least I will never say that.

    No bielmans, no real fans, no 3x3, no loop jump, etc.
    Well you no longer need a Beilman to get a Level 4 Layback and Fan Spirals don't count for anything now either. She certainly did have the Loop for most of her career and the 3x3 for the majority of it as well.

    Michelle Kwan at full health can definitely be a CoP skater.

  4. #49
    Custom Title 76olympics's Avatar
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    I may be unoriginal, but my favorite MK incarnation is still #2 - "the artistic phase." But, you know, I reconcile myself to her departure and feel it is quite natural and then I see her speaking on the "Russia Now" interview and she just hypnotizes me into feeling that she could easily be skating on my screen again. She WILL rise above the "cloud" of "Bolero" and produce something memorable again. If she has this effect on me and I never was one of her fervent followers, I can fully understand how she has such a hold on her fans.

    It is hypnosis!! Maybe, she should become an advertising executive when she does take that final bow!

    Postscript: Just look! She has taken over yet another thread... How does it happen?
    Last edited by 76olympics; 08-05-2007 at 07:55 PM.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by 76olympics View Post
    Postscript: Just look! She has taken over yet another thread...
    True. Although taking over the "Unsuccessful Material" thread is maybe not such a good thing.

  6. #51
    Custom Title 76olympics's Avatar
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    Egad! You're right, Mathman. This is why she is gathering her forces in pursuit of transcendent material at this very moment....

  7. #52
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldMedalist View Post
    Michelle Kwan at full health can definitely be a CoP skater.
    This is a bird of a different color. Health has knocked out many skaters, and with due respect to MK, do you think she would have the now requisite 3A. Don't forget mastering new tricks after 20 is almost unheard of. and MK would be 25.

  8. #53
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    Oh jeez, the 3A isn't a requirement. Mao is the only girl doing it and who knows if her body will allow her to keep the jump consistent two years from now.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldMedalist View Post
    Oh jeez, the 3A isn't a requirement. Mao is the only girl doing it and who knows if her body will allow her to keep the jump consistent two years from now.
    I agree; 3A isn't necessary for the ladies to do well. However, Michelle would need to bring a serious 3-3 to competition (not just 3T-3T), and also land her lutzes/flips in order to keep up with the younger girls.

    If she can do it, I'm all for seeing it.

    Unfortunately, I think it's rather doubtful.

  10. #55
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    I think, that Boutne-Kraatz FD in 98 and 2002 was exellent.
    Bad programs - Lobacheva-Averbuch - all FD during there carier (especially 02, 03)
    Lysachek - LP 05, short programs
    Sasha Kohen - Swan Lake
    Kwan - Black Swan bu Dean

  11. #56
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    I think a lot of coaches and choreographers, even skaters try to either go for something already done in an previous olympics - in other words going for safety ie, Carmen, Swan Lake, Four Seasons, Rachmaninov, Romeo & Juliet, Tosca or they go for something out of their zone which doesnt really work for them.

    Costumes to me have got better through the years but the Ice Dance costumes can be a bit suspect?

    I would say with the new COP system, if I was a coach or choreographer I would stick to something that the skater is comfortable with and try a new piece of music not used and work on difficulty of step sequences and spins and getting them to jump consistently.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyCoop View Post
    Miki was having such a bad season all the way around that I don't think ANYTHING would have made much of a difference. Bear in mind, she hit the wall in both the short and long programs at Olys; this is how you KNOW she's just not having an easy time of it.

    Anyway, my list, which I'm sure I may add to as more occur to me:

    LADIES:

    "The Miraculous Mandarin", Michelle Kwan -- Heaven knows Michelle doesn't miss often, but she was WAY off here. What this was about, I have no idea. What she was going for, who knows?? Fortunately, she only brought this one out once at major competition.
    As far as I remember that was a Speedy thing. He had required a final round at the GPF (1 vs 2; 3 vs 4 etc) and then required that the second LP be new and different from the one that each skater was competing with during the season. Kwan chose to try a WHOLE NEW program (imagine putting together a new LP in the middle of the season while still training the old one!!!!!) where others evidently felt that NEW program meant one used in a previous season and they suffered no ill effects. I still wonder what would have happened had Kwan reused a LP I believe that was choregraphed by Peter Oppengard. He didn't seem to get Michelle's connecting step ability. There were some really new and fresh moves but not enough for it be something I would want to see a lot.

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