Westminster Dog Show

Re: Westminster Dog Show

Unfortunately, I wasnt able to catch the action, since I live in Canada and dont get digital... None of our cable channels carried the show, though it will probably be on in a few weeks time. Its always interesting to hear reactions in the meantime, though. I show one of my Goldens, and let me say that there is definitely a political aspect to dog showing, very much like some of the things we see going on in figure skating. The criteria for judging is how well each dog fits its own breed standard, but there is always room for different interpretations, and personal taste inevitably enters the picture sometimes - though in an ideal world it really shouldnt.

A lot of the dogs at Westminster, I would say most of the dogs there, are shown by professional handlers, who are experts in bringing out the best in the dogs they show - and also do have some political clout (depending on the judge). Some judges, unfortunately, are known for not putting up owner-handlers, while others honestly do put up the dog they see as best on a particular day. Just like in figure skating - you get all types. As an owner-handler in a breed that tends to pull high entries, I find that I have to choose my judges wisely!

Just wanted to add, Im new here - I have been lurking for a few weeks, but decided to jump in. You seem like a friendly bunch, and Im looking forward to chatting with you all more!

Re: Westminster Dog Show

Goldenlady, how lucky you are to share your life with Goldens.

Agreed about the political situation but I do think it's more pronounced at the local levels.

What amazes me though, is the fact that a Golden has never won Best in Show. I really thought that this year's breed winner had a good chance in Group.

Do you like mysteries? Susan Conant writes wonderful books about a writer who writes articles for dog magazines and her two Alaskan Malamutes. I recommend her books for anyone who's ever been around a dog; I've certainly learned a lot about the "ring" and other doggie things.

Why am I recommending this series of books to you? Holly Winter, the main character was raised with Goldens. Her mother bred and showed them so there's lot's of references to Goldens in the books.

4dk

Re: Westminster Dog Show

Welcome to Golden Skate, Golden Lady. See, it sounds like a good match already.

Mathman

Re: Best in Show

Hi Ptichka,,

"Dallas" the German shep., was the top show dog the past year. Mick was not shown as extensively this year, but he still walked off with the AKC Invit.-Nat'l Champ and Westminster.

The Peke, Les, has been doing alot of winning. The Newfie was so "on" in group, but didn't stand out as much in BIS (dog talk for best in show)

If you ever get the nerve or suffer incurable curiousity, you can follow the dogs and the points they've earned at the AKC site.

By the way, I like poodles too. The show dog cuts look silly, but poodles (not the puppy mill variety) are generally very trainable, delightful dogs. Give 'em the puppy cut, and people like 'em better!

Aside to Laura, I just rewatched last years WKC show (hey, I taped it then cuz I wasn't home when it was shown last year!). I still agree with naming "Spice Girl" BIS. She was the dog who showed best in that final group. Altho, you could also make a case for the adorable Affinpinscher. This year's poodle in the final group, "Miki," placed in the group last year. Personally, I find it almost painful to look at the white poodles with show cuts. At least the black ones have darker skin and the shaving doesn't look so raw!

Re: Best in Show

4dognight
I meant no disrespect to the French Poodle. I understand that they are probably the smartest of all breeds and are very loveable. I think if I had one I would probably keep it's hair short.
4dognight and Pati sorry to hear that you lost pets. Anyone who has lost one, knows how heart wrenching it is.
Granny Lulu and I would love to hear you dog stories and how are things going with you and your daughter?
Daniel and Little Lulu

Re: Best in Show

<span style="colorurple;font-family:georgia;font-size:x-small;">Jo, you know way more about dogs than I do (I've had two mutts from the pound, and a border collie given being given away by a neighbor, he used to herd my sister and I away from the street), so whether the poodle last year was "on" or not wouldn't have been obvious to me. I'm sure they are lovely dogs, but they look ridiculous (IMO). I like "real" dogs, the working dogs, the terriers, etc. I love watching the competitions where they run the obstacle course.

What was the medium sized dog with the curly tail in the BIS group? He looked pretty happy to be in the ring.

Cheers,

Laura </span>

Re: Best in Show

I know poodles are sure hard to keep brushed. We had two.

Thanks for asking Danny. She isn't any worse. We moved her to Larned in a low income apt. and she is managing, kind of, to live on her own, pretty much. Had some trouble as when they got her stuff out of storage it was all musty and made her sick. She was able to sell her new box springs and mattress but had to have her sofa and lazyboy dumped. She has been trying to clean everything with vinegar and had her carpet steam cleaned. She's sleeping on an air mattress on the floor. Dr. said she shouldn't have metal springs any way so she ordered a new air mattress and a friend is making her a wooden frame for her bed to put the mattress on. Oops, I ended a sentence a preposition with or something. :lol:

Re: Westminster Dog Show

4dogknight - I missed your earlier post... I'm so sorry to hear about Robin. I lost my first Golden to lymphoma at the age of 6, and I really do know the heartbreak. How is the rest of the gang coping so far? I hope they're able to offer you some comfort at this difficult time.

Thanks for the book recommendations! Ive seen Susan Conants books, but haven't gotten around to reading any of them yet. I will though, especially now that I know about the Golden connection. I'm a real bookworm, too, so those will go over well!

Yes, Goldens are great dogs... I sure am sold on the breed. What breed(s)/crosses are your other dogs?

Regarding politics and dog shows: I've only shown locally myself, but thinking about it, I can see how the politics would be worse at that level. It sure can be frustrating, though.

Thanks for your post!

Re: Westminster Dog Show

Thanks for the welcome, Mathman. I think I like it here already!

Re: Best in Show

Hi Laura,

I've never owned a purebred dog either. Even the "mutts" I had that had purebred parents had parents of different breeds! My favorite was Stubby. He was a Dachshund-Schnauzer mix. (The owners were into purebreds, just different breeds. An oops litter. Not the one planned for mama.) We called him Stubby because he was born with only a stub of a tail! Weird thing was, more than one person wanted to buy him or breed him because he was such a cute combination.

Growing up in the boonies gave me lots of chances to know a handful of purebred breeds. People who get into breeding and hunting and herding tend to gravitate to those wide open spaces. Not to mention all the farmers I went to school with.

Anyway..I think the dog you are asking about in BIS at WKC show was the Ibizan Hound. The broadcasters said her name was Bunny, 'cuz of a mark on her back that looked a bit like the Playboy logo. Wasn't she a gorgeous creature?

If I could have a purebreed in my apartment situation, I'd probably have a hound. Beagle, maybe. My grandfather was into hunting and fishing and always kept a few beagles. I think they are cute with those erect tails and long floppy ears and sweet facial expression.

I was really tempted when someone offered me a Black and Tan hound - ok, I grew up calling them coonhounds. Those people who breed to have hunting companions have not much use for a gun-shy puppy. That is how my brother got his Golden, Tonya. His hunting buddies won't keep a dog they can't hunt with.

Re: Best in Show

Oops, forgot what I originally wanted to talk about!

First, asides. Daniel, poodles are cool dogs. It's the owners that piss me off! That and show cuts. As I said, the cuts are silly.

Grgranny, glad to hear your daughter is at least getting along in her new apartment. Her health struggle is ongoing and draining for both her and you. I wish her health. Tell her she'll probably love a good air mattress. I have a Select Comfort. Had it 3 or 4 years. I just love it. Since I also have allergies, (that's why I have one pet at a time. Now it is a very old cat.) it is best to enclose the mattress in non-allergenic bedding. The best part of the mattress is the ability to change the firmness at will.

OK, now for the original stuff. Did anyone watch Primetime Live last night? Chris Wallace did a piece that followed some dogs on the trail to Westminster. The lady that owned the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel literally spent 6 figures in her "campaign" to have her dog named BIS. Some people really do throw money around like that in the dog world.

Aside to GoldenLady, read the Susan Conant books. She talks alot about dogs, esp. Goldens and Malamutes. She also talks about dog shows and the cut-throat competition that can surface there and obedience training and other things people who frequent dog shows get into. Personally, the "sport" that looks most fun for the dogs is the agility course. Since it is like race with hurdles, the handlers and the dogs get really worked up for speed. Looks like a fun way to be with dogs and get a little(?) exercise too.

Wallace's piece showed the other side of the show dog world. The owner of the St. Bernard, Ben, is a mechanic who got married at a dog show. He and his wife breed and handle dogs. Must take a good part of their income to travel all over with St. Bernards (his has it's own trailer that they pull behind the RV.)

Then, there are the rich types who hire professional handlers to show their dogs. That example was the German Sherpherd, Dallas. I think he said that the owners spent something like $50,000/year to the handler to care for and show their dog. Also said Dallas is retiring and going back to his owner. Maybe that is what will happen with the winner, Mick.

Then, on CNN, they said that the Westminster show drew 4.6 million viewers, the highest rating ever for the show that USA network has been showing for 20 years. Must be lots of "lurkers" out there who are secret dog show junkies! :rollin:

Soapbox time - puppies are cute and big business. Puppy mills are inhumane places that churn out puppies for pet shops. And all puppies grow up. Too many people don't make the kind of commitment that raising a puppy requires and aren't willing to put in the time and effort and patience to properly train and socialize their pet. Then, they end up at shelters. I firmly believe in rescue pets. It is not the fault of the animal that its humans have failed to properly breed and raise and train them. Dogs are loving creatures and will amply reward those who care for them!!!!!!!

Adopt a dog or cat who needs a home. It is especially hard to find new homes for adult animals. Purebred or mutt, stray or puppy/kitten or abandoned animals can all bring so much to your life.

Re: Best in Show

JO: Thanks for mentioning animal rescue, I would have done but I was severly set upon when I commented on the pigeon persecution during Trophee Lalique. I formed some opinions during those posts and have avoided mentioning anything finned, furred, scaled, or feathered since then. I decided to take a chance for Westminster and if you notice, I was careful with my original post.

I belong to several national and local animal rights organizations and feel stongly that we must put these puppy mills out of business. (I've been trying to remember which of the Conant books covered this subject so well but the title escapes me. Do you remember?)

And your statement about the cuteness of puppies and the plight of the established (I don't like to use the word older, hits too close to home) animals really hits the mark.

In the past I've written letters, send faxes and e-mails, made telephone calls on behalf of these neglected components of the animal population. The answer is to match these animals with the elderly but government funded housing does not allow the elderly to have companion animals. This is why some of our senior citizen who should be in nursing or assisted living facilities will not go. They just will not give up their companions. And yes, I've written, telephoned, faxed and e-mail on this issue as well.

I will now get off my soap box so as to not give those who think this is a humerous issue a chance to abuse my beliefs again.

I am a declared animal and evironmental activist and darn proud of it, as evidenced by my name!

4dk

Re: Best in Show

<span style="colorurple;font-family:georgia;font-size:x-small;">I love animals, too, but the pigeon thing was funny. I'm sorry it bothered you so much.

I do, however, give significant sums of money to animal rescue groups (Paws with a Cause is a good one, only 8% of costs go to overhead) and I give to another one that rescues cats, the name escapes me at the moment. And, of course, I always help out at the Humane Society.

Jo, it was Bunny that I was thinking of; he/she was quite happy to be running around the ring.

I have a question for those of you who know...one of the handlers in the last group before BIS, she was handling one of the Corgis, the judge criticized her for going too far on the trip down the ring, and then she dropped a bunch of treats. Did that hurt that dog's chances? Because I thought it was a fabulous dog. (but what the heck do I know?)

Cheers,

Laura </span>

Re: Best in Show

We watched Primetime Live last night also. I didn't realize that handlers had to relinquish their dog to it's owner. I don't know how they can do that. I felt so bad for the handler for the German Sheppard. I guess that would be the same for trainers for aid dogs. They train their dog for a few years and then have to give them up. I couldn't do it.
Daniel and Little Lulu

Susan Conant books

Thanks Jo - I got one of those books out from the library this afternoon, and am looking forward to reading it. Looks really interesting!

Agility is a ton of fun, and great exercise for both the dog and the handler. I had my younger dog in some agility classes last summer, but we havent done any trials; I have him in obedience classes now so hopefully we can enter some trials in the spring.

BTW, I like puppy cuts on poodles, too.

Oh, and 4dogknight, I agree totally about the puppy mill situation; it really makes me sick.

Re: Susan Conant books

Well, I saw some kind of competition on Animal Planet this afternoon and watched the last 15 or 20 min. I had no idea they did all that running, jumping, etc. on it. I thought all they did was sit and stuff like that. It really was enjoyable. I especially liked how the dogs leapt into the trainer's arms at the end. That was neat.
Also, the poodle cut I liked the most on our poodles when we purchased our male poodle, was a puppy cut. I just thought it was really cute.
Poodles are really hard to comb. Our male just loved to go roll out in the snow. Of course, then it was really hard to clean up.

Re: Susan Conant books

<span style="colorurple;font-family:verdana;font-size:medium;">Corgis are wonderful dogs. My Mother has a Pembroke (no tail) named Abbey. They are very intelligent animals. Abbey has herded the cat back into the house when she accidentally got out.! I am still trying to find a Papillion. </span>


Piel

Re: Best in Show

Hi all,

4dogknt, glad to hear about your love for animals. I just wish there was more that I could do, but I have time and energy and money limits.

Laura, glad to be of help. Wasn't Bunny just adorable? Glad you are into animal welfare too. Don't really have an answer about Corgi. Just know it never pays to annoy the tyrant in the ring, aka the judge.

as to Conant books, I know she is a rabid opponent of puppy mills and they are mentioned often. can't remember which one book had most about. she's also against using god spelled backward for experimentation. She also talks alot about breed rescue. Besides, her mysteries are entertaining.

Daniel, now you know that show dogs are big business. When they talk about "campaigning" a dog, they are being realistic. Money is thrown at professional trainers, handlers, groomers. They spend bucks for travel and show expenses. Also, owners take out expensive ads in breed and general dog magazines to promote the name recognition of their dogs.

Of course, we pet companions and care-givers spend big bucks too on our beloved pets. But I suspect most of don't have 6 figures to throw at anything at all!

Re: Puppy Mills

I know that purchasing puppies from the pet store chains helps to perpetuate the puppy mills. But what about the puppies that the stores have for sale? I am really torn on this. As I have previously mentioned I want a Papillion and for the last year have not had any luck getting one from a breeder. My local pet store has them fairly often. What to do??? I have never had a pet (as an adult) and have "done my homework" and the Pap seems to be the perfect choice for my lifestyle. I have my heart set on a black and white female and really want a puppy so I am not interested in getting a dog through a rescue organization.

Any thoughts on purchasing a puppy from a pet store?

Piel

Puppy mills

About pet stores/puppy mills - *most* of the puppies you see at pet stores do come from puppy mills, so I would recommend not getting a pup from a pet store under any circumstances. As far as the dogs that are already at the stores are concerned, a lot of people buy them because they feel sorry for them, and worry about the fate of those dogs that nobody buys... Problem is, in giving the pet stores the business, people are in fact perpetuating the whole problem -- the pet store people figure hey, if it works (i.e. they are making $$ on the deal), why not keep doing it? Whats more, you could be setting yourself up for major heartbreak. Puppy mills do absolutely no research on the dogs they use for breeding. They dont know anything about their pedigrees, so the dogs could be terribly inbred, or from totally incompatible breedings health-wise. Their breeding stock isn't certified to be clear of hereditary problems so you never know what problems the pup may run into (including problems that could lead to blindness or deafness, crippling orthopedic problems, terminal heart conditions, and the list goes on and on). I have heard of pet store puppies who are sick before they even leave the store; one such pup was brought into the vet clinic where I used to work, and she had parvovirus. We didnt know at first if she was even going to make it, and her new owners were devastated. The pup was only 8 weeks old, and had to spend weeks in hospital; she eventually did pull through, but that experience will always stay with me.

The conditions in which puppy mill dogs are kept (unbelievably filthy), and the indiscriminate way in which they are bred (females upon every heat for as long as theyre able to produce - and then when theyre no longer able to have litters, guess what happens to them? ) would be enough alone to make me turn and run.

The staff at pet stores arent much better; in general they are only interested in making the sale, and will sell to anyone who can pull out a credit card. No questions about your lifestyle, no attempts to match up buyers with the best puppy for their family and environment - no caring whatsoever. And you dont get follow-up support, the way you would from a responsible breeder who truly knows, loves and cares about his/her breed and the puppies he/she produces.

If you have done your research, know the breed you are interested in, and are unable to find a good breeder close to where you are, you might want to consider looking further afield. Either way, you might have to be put on a waiting list; it can take quite a while to get a good puppy, but believe me, it is well worth the wait!! I know people who have driven several hours to pick up a pup (I actually flew across the country to get one of mine, but I know everyone is not as crazy as I am ), and when you consider that this dog will be a part of your family for maybe 12-15 years, and possibly even longer, it is worth going the extra distance.

Good luck!