News, views & results from Skate Detroit 2007

Mathman said:

About the edge quality of the Lutz, there have been so many arguments (more heat than light) about Flutzes and how they should be scored, I have to wonder why this problem persists even in the very youngest skaters, especially in the U.S. Are the coaches just letting it go, figuring that the CoP penalty is pretty much non-existent anyway? Or are the skaters just so eagar to jump, jump, jump that they ignore their coaches on proper technique?

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It persists because the Lutz is a HARD jump and it's better to at least do Flutz than leave it out of your program altogether. I don't think kids are being taught incorrectly, it's just a matter of talent. The best coach in the world can't make someone do a Triple Axel (or a true Lutz, in this case) if that student doesn't have the determination and the ability.

feraina said:

Dee Dee's 3T on the 3/3 looks a little under-rotated, no?

She has really long arms and legs!

It's great to see new talent budding up.

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No, just slow to check out. It's how her coach teaches - he's big on staying in on a jump until the very end and she does that. I've seen that combo on fresh ice and that puppy's clean, consistently.

The toeloop is underrotated but not UNDERROTED (ie. to the point where it needs to be downgraded).

Here are the Friday results I have... I will fill in more tech. details when I have the time and energy.

SENIOR LADIES FS A (top 6 in A & B qualify for the FS Final)
1 Hawker 115.22 1 1 (74.74 in FS)
2 Katz 108.28 8 2 (74.35)
3 Stucks 108.12 6 3 (73.38 )
4 Manning 108.10 3 4 (70.44)
5 Roman 100.27
6 Best 99.28
Papasotiriou 95.06
Lazenby 89.50
Miller 89.48
Oster 83.38
de Repentigny 78.38
Bunge 74.04
Jacks 72.34
Gentile 64.82
Bauer 58.64
WD: Sheikh, Waldron

SENIOR LADIES FS B (I missed seeing most of this group)
1 Szmiett 113.57 2 2
2 Hyatt 112.78 1 8
3 Telecky 112.37 3 1
4 Leong 106.56 5 6
5 Scherrer 106.27 6 3
6 Westdorp 106.08 4 7
LoRusso 103.18 7 5
Archambault 101.72 10 4
Lecheler 92.43 9 10
Wang 91.93 8 11
Nunn 85.66 13 9
Cloutier 83.75 12 12
Tully 75.75 14 13
Hicks 73.60 15 14
WD: Farris

SENIOR MEN SP (just jump notes for now)
1 Parker Pennington 67.62 [Flamenco mix choreographed by Nikolai Morozov] - 3f-3t(good combo), 3a, 3z
2 Rohene Ward 55.31 [Blues piece/electric guitar]- 4t(fell out), 1A, 3z(hand down)
3 Jonathan Cassar 51.29 [jazzy piano piece from last year choreographed by David Wilson] - 3f(hand)-2t, 3z(fall), 2a
4 Tommy Steenberg 51.20 [Le Corsaire ballet by Drigo choreographed y Chris Conte] - 3z-2t<, 3r(good), 2a (overrot./step out)
5 Karolin Metivier CAN 48.91 [Tango medley] - 3z(hand)-2t, 2a, 3r(fall out)
6 Ken Rose CAN 46.22 [music?] - 3z(fall), 2a, 3f

JUNIOR MEN SP (just jump notes for top 5 for now)
1 Grant Hochstein (EGL) 58.64 [Santana medley from last season, choreographed by Ryan Jahnke] - 3z-2t, 3r, 2a
2 William Brewster (EGL) 47.70 - 3r(fall), 3z-2t, 2a
3 Christopher Darling (SW) 46.18 - 3t-2t, 3r, 2a
4 Max Aaron (SWP) 41.79 z-2t, 3r, 2a
5 Osadolo Irowa (UGL) 37.82 3a(hard fall), 3r(fall out), 2a
6 William Nottingham (NWP) 37.47
7 Severia Kiefer AUT 36.68
8 Dane Carter (NE) 34.61
9 Sean Marshinski (UGL) 33.74
10 Eric Reinhart (SW) 33.20
11 Michael Marinaro CAN 31.99
12 Daniyel Cohen (NE) 31.16
13 Trevor Young (EGL) 30.98
14 Pine Kopka-Ross (EGL) 30.71
15 Dustin Aucoin CAN 30.69
16 Luke Chilcott GBR 29.30

JUNIOR LADIES FS A (top 4 in each group qualify for the FS Final)
1 Maxwell 120.25 1 1 (80.41 in FS; Finding Nemo soundtrack) - 2a, 3t-2t, 3z(bit of a high swinging free leg)-2t, 3r(fall), 2z, 3s-2t, OSE to 3s(turnout).
2 Olson 109.75 2 2 (65.02)
3 Alsup 98.47 3 4 (59.81)
4 Ransford 96.37 5 3 (61.27)
Reneau 88.00 7 5
Bedell 87.13 4 9
Charbonneau 86.17 6 8
Melton 84.42 9 6
Aaron 81.21 8 10
Nguyen 80.99 12 7
Sirois 75.54 10 12
Maurer 71.88 13 11
Lobsinger 67.77 11 13

JUNIOR LADIES FS B
1 Stacey 101.29 3 2 (63.98 in FS)
2 Young 97.48 4 1 (64.43)
3 Crawford 91.64 7 4 (60.86)
4 Wescott 90.85 8 3 (62.18 )
Morrow 89.64 5 5
Roman 88.33 1 7
Chambers 86.74 6 6
Norris 75.91 9 8
Leet 72.00 10 9
Steele 70.73 11 10

JUNIOR LADIES FS C
1 Leng 135.57 1 1 (82.10 in FS; classical ballet?) - 2a, 2r<(pop to 2 ft), 3z(light hand down), 3f-2t, 3z-2t-2r, 3s, 1f.
2 Scimeca 112.86 4 2 (74.01)
3 Favot 101.45 6 4 (64.83)
4 Broussard 97.93 7 5 (62.04)
Seitz 97.20 3 6
Fairchild 97.56 11 3
Grayson 92.01 5 9
Speranzo 88.35 9 8
Gueli 88.35 9 8
Jaggers 85.06 8 10
Strojny 82.38 12 7
West 79.39 10 12
Frankish 70.92 14 13
Marshall 70.40 13 14
Russ 64.56 15 15

Note: I didn't get to see any Novice or Intermediate Ladies in Rink B.

NOVICE LADIES (top 3 advance to Final)
A: Alexys Taylor 90.06 (SP+FS), Sydney Kolodziej 89.07, Lee Keller 82.25
B: Sophia LaMay 84.92, Tabitha Taylor 82.98, Elisabeth McDonald 82.62
C: Farah Sheik 88.87, Amalia Megally 75.70, Shelby Sylvester 72.77
D: Dana Sivak 89.65, Emily Glassberg 76.86, Carrie Fredin 76.61
E: (event still going on when I left the rink)

INTERMEDIATE LADIES (top 2 in A-G advance to the Final)
A: Mara Gueli 77.01, Allison Jamison 68.10
B: Nina Jiang 87.89, Michelle Locascio 64.85
C: Abby Shamis 62.29, Kimberly Morawski 65.62
D: Lili Malone 74.18, Lucy Mann 72.12
E: Jessica Young and Renee Kono both tied with 67.99 (Young won the FS)
F: Alana Christie 74.88, Cassie Andrews 74.79
G: Kelli Cichanofsky 71.98, Jennifer Sterbenz 68.58

I will post more videos when I get a chance.

bibi said:

here's dee dee leng SP on youtube:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kGe5JfckCQA
She has a gorgeous 3lutz-3toe!!

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Does anyone know who was on the judging panel at this event? Hard to understand the +GOE on the 3Lz/3T....esp with the turn out at the end of the combo. Also, anyone know about the 3Lp and GOE...with the amount of pause from footwork into the jump, I would suspect -GOE?

GoldMedalist said:

It persists because the Lutz is a HARD jump and it's better to at least do Flutz than leave it out of your program altogether. I don't think kids are being taught incorrectly, it's just a matter of talent. The best coach in the world can't make someone do a Triple Axel (or a true Lutz, in this case) if that student doesn't have the determination and the ability.

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Why is it such a problem with American skaters? I think for so long, the coaches realized that the flutz can be overlooked by judges. Even today under the CoP, it gets only a slap on the wrist for not doing a Lutz according to definition.

Can you imagine a skater taking off on a slight forward inside edge, rotating 3 times in the air and landing on the opposite foot in a back outside edge. That would not even be scored as an attempted axel as a flutz would. Only the flutz gets the ok.

Joe

Nigel said:

Does anyone know who was on the judging panel at this event? Hard to understand the +GOE on the 3Lz/3T....esp with the turn out at the end of the combo. Also, anyone know about the 3Lp and GOE...with the amount of pause from footwork into the jump, I would suspect -GOE?

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The + GOE because she's skating JUNIOR and it was the only 3Lu/3T at any level in Ladies AND because if you've ever seen Dee Dee skate in person, you'd know that those jumps are VERY high with respect to Dee Dee's overall size (which is hard to see from the angle of the video),the position is nice and tight, her jumps don't just spin off the take off and rotate. There was no turn out on the end of the combo, there was a slow check out because she stayed IN and tight until the very end of the jump to ensure it was a 3T (as opposed to a <) but she rode a clear back outside edge on the way out.

mskater93 said:

The + GOE because she's skating JUNIOR and it was the only 3Lu/3T at any level in Ladies AND...

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Everything after the AND is great and just what the GOE is supposed to be grading.

But the part about, the judges give higher GOE because it's a harder element than any other junior is doing -- that is exactly my suspicion. That the judges use the GOEs not only to award quality, but also to give an extra bonus to skaters who go for quads, triple Axels and hard triple-triples.

This is not a criticism of the IJS, just an observation about how it is playing out in practice as opposed to theory. At Worlds one judge gave Mao Asada a +3 GOE for a two-footed triple Axel -- presumably because, hey, it's a TRIPLE AXEL!!!!!

Did Alex Darnell withdraw from the Novice men's comp? I didn't see him listed in the results.

Mathman said:

At Worlds one judge gave Mao Asada a +3 GOE for a two-footed triple Axel -- presumably because, hey, it's a TRIPLE AXEL!!!!!

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This reminds me of something called the "Miracle of the Dancing Bear". The miracle of the dancing bear is not that it dances gracefully, but that it dances at all.

I will be adding a bunch of videos over the next week.
Parker Pennington's Sp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zJveMCTis8

Best And Youngs FS
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IsilTuqmGh0
Angela Maxwell's FS
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5k6_IQriu_M

Kirsten Olson
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wxyTUItP2rs

Here are all the rest of the Saturday Novice-Senior results I have...

SENIOR MEN FS & FINAL
Parker Pennington 194.98 1 1 (127.36 in FS) - landed 3f-3t, 3a, 1a-3t(-1 GOE), 3z-2t-2r, 3r(fall), 2a, 3z(-1 GOE), 3s
Jonathan Cassar 150.26 3 3 (98.97)
Karolin Metivier CAN 149.11 5 2 (100.20)
Tommy Steenberg 147.61 4 4 (96.41)
Ken Rose CAN 133.71 6 5 (87.49)
WD: Rohene Ward (didn't plan on doing the FS here since he was also coaching junior Kirsten Olson)

SENIOR LADIES FINAL FS
Chloe Katz 77.99
Linsey Stucks 75.77
Melissa Telecky 73.94
Andrea Best 70.11
Lesley Hawker 69.09
Megan Hyatt 65.54
Amy Manning 64.64
Diane Szmiett 63.37
Brittney Westdorp 61.96
Lauren Roman 59.59
Erin Scherrer 54.51
Danielle Leong 53.83

SENIOR PAIRS FS
Butler/Jacobsen 81.21
Beriau/Merritt 69.45

JUNIOR MEN FS & FINAL
Grant Hochstein 166.34 (107.70 in FS) - landed 6 triples and 2 2axels
William Brewster 143.97 (96.27)
Christopher Darling 121.36 (75.18)
Osadolo Irowa 114.20 (76.38)
William Nottingham 114.03 (76.56)
Dane Carter 108.54 (73.93)
Eric Reinhart 103.82 (70.62)
Pine Kopka-Ross 101.52 (70.81)
Sean Marshinski 100.90 (67.16)
Severin Kiefer AUT 99.07 (62.39)
Trevor Young 96.60 (65.62)
Dustin Aucoin CAN 90.27 (59.58)
Luke Chilcott GBR 82.53 (53.23)
Michael Marinaro CAN 75.05 (43.06)

JUNIOR PAIRS FS
Best/Young 79.22 - landed sbs 3t(-1 GOE) and 2a-2t and throw 3s
Kelly/Woodruff 64.83
Steele/Johnson CAN 58.18

JUNIOR LADIES FINAL FS
Angela Maxwell 91.65 Jumps: 2a(with distance and speed out), 3t-3t(crisp, fast rotations), 3z(high free leg)-turn-2t-2r, 3r, 2z, 3s-2t(nice landing).
Dee Dee Leng 76.42 - 2a, 3r(hand down), 3z(nice flow out), 1f(pop to 2 ft), 3z(fall), 3s(nice), 3f-2t(slow out)
Kirsten Olson 67.08
Regan Alsup 63.29
Daniela Favot 61.52
Rikki Wescott 58.56
Mckenzie Crawford 57.04 (tie broken by PSC score?)
Erica Ransford 57.04
Alexa Scimeca 56.91
Lynzee Broussard 56.74
Emily Young 54.29
Tara Stacey 52.15

NOVICE LADIES FINAL FS
Farah Sheikh 65.13
Dana Sivak 59.49
Sophia LaMay 54.57
Emily Glassberg 53.84
Tabitha Taylor 53.25
Jennifer Kahanic 52.77
Lee Keller 52.71
Sydney Kolodziej 52.33
Katrina Weber 52.29
Alexys Taylor 50.32
Elisabeth McDonald 49.61
Amalia Megally 48.17
Cyara Hotopp 45.98
Shelby Sylvester 43.28
Carrie Fredin 42.44

NOVICE MEN FS & FINAL
Daniel O'Shea 125.71 1 1 (80.54 in FS) - 2a, 3t-2t, 3z(fall), 2f, 3s-2t, 3t, 3s-2t
Jason Thomas 109.02 3 3 (73.76)
Victor Travis 107.20 4 2 (74.04)
Charles Dion 100.93 6 4 (69.55)
Zachariah Szabo 98.73 5 5 (66.91)
Timothy LeDuc 98.50 2 7 (61.65)
Joe Gorecki 88.64 9 6 (64.35)
Shaquille Davis CAN 80.90 7 8 (51.33)
Dylan DeWitt 75.27 8 10 (47.36)
Bill Littleheld 67.52 12 9 (48.41)
Caden Armstrong CAN 64.96 11 11 (45.38 )
Mark Zellefrow 58.08 13 12 (39.90)

Sylvia said:

JUNIOR MEN FS & FINAL
1. Grant Hochstein 166.34 (107.70 in FS) - landed 6 triples and 2 2axels
2. William Brewster 143.97 (96.27)...

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Go William!!

Dee Dee Leng FS 2nd place

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PceBH4X2MJg

When I get some rest I will post more later.

Mathman said:

At Worlds one judge gave Mao Asada a +3 GOE for a two-footed triple Axel -- presumably because, hey, it's a TRIPLE AXEL!!!!!

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Well the two-footing was very light and not even noticable from some angles. She approaches the jump from a difficult entrance and had a beautiful air position, so all of those factors are why I'm guessing the judge gave her a +3. Still way overboard, but then I disagree with the judges who gave the jump negative GOE.

GoldMedalist said:

Well the two-footing was very light and not even noticable from some angles. She approaches the jump from a difficult entrance and had a beautiful air position, so all of those factors are why I'm guessing the judge gave her a +3. Still way overboard, but then I disagree with the judges who gave the jump negative GOE.

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A two-footed landing carries a -2 GOE penalty and a mandatory negative GOE overall. So you must be right about it not being noticable from the angle of the judges' panel. 6 of the judges did not notice it at all and gave a 0 or positive GOE to the element.

As to why one particular judge thought it was worth +3, that same judge also gave her a +3 on her 3F+3Lo combo (no other judge gave higher than a +1), a +2 on her Lutz (three judges gave a -1), and 8.75s for Skating Skills and Interpretation. Just one of those strange mysteries of life.

Sylvia said:

SENIOR LADIES FINAL FS
Chloe Katz 77.99

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Go Chloe! I loved her and her partner in pairs at Nats last year. Does anyone know if she's still skating pairs too?

At Dee Dee's age and this being a summer competition, I can't help but think that she made a Big Statement about her future. You will note that the entire skate was performed at reasonanle speed BUT, the Single Loop Jump suddenly brought the speed down for the preparation, and also with that good tempo of the program - I insist a single loop jump is not an easy jump. I can understand the Ladies putting it in combos.

What happened to Tommy Steenberg and Megan Oster??

Joe

I dunno, she went into her 3Lz + 3T with barely any speed at all as well.