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Thread: Mao has REALLY improved in the expression dept.

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    Go Caroline! <3 carolinefan177's Avatar
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    Mao has REALLY improved in the expression dept.


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    Quote Originally Posted by carolinefan177 View Post
    Did anyone read the comments? Good god, it's a nasty Mao Fans vs. Yu-Na Fans cat fight already.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveT View Post
    Did anyone read the comments? Good god, it's a nasty Mao Fans vs. Yu-Na Fans cat fight already.
    The skaters must love it. The more fighting among fans, the more publicity and money for all.

    About the performance, I have always thought Mao's expression was fine. Even when she was a little girl "jumping bean," IMO she also had good spins, good extension and lovely positions.

    This performance won't make her highlight reel, though -- she messed up two of her three jumps. To me, technical mistakes also detract from the overall artistic effect of the program.

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    Go Caroline! <3 carolinefan177's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveT View Post
    Did anyone read the comments? Good god, it's a nasty Mao Fans vs. Yu-Na Fans cat fight already.
    I know!! How sad. Youtube seems to be FULL of skating bashers. Thank goodness goldenskate seems to have posters with a wider prospective and higher IQs . On almost all of the Michelle Kwan videos, a poster, fairplaywanted, constantly insults Michelle, and on most Asada/Kim videos there is a racial war going on between the users.

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    Moving up the testing structure Kypma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolinefan177 View Post
    I know!! How sad. Youtube seems to be FULL of skating bashers. Thank goodness goldenskate seems to have posters with a wider prospective and higher IQs . On almost all of the Michelle Kwan videos, a poster, fairplaywanted, constantly insults Michelle, and on most Asada/Kim videos there is a racial war going on between the users.
    Wow... how ironic. fairplaywanted seems to be rather unfair. Some people would be better off quiet than insulting.

    Kypma

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    I think diehard fans of MK and Yuna Kim never admit Mao's "expressions". She's not intereted in "face arts" and coquettish moves. IMO, Mao is making a new standard of expressions--skating and flexibility oritented expressions, and Yuna Kim is clinging to the classic stereotype of MK.
    Last edited by rutinia; 07-29-2007 at 04:19 AM.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    If we are asking about skater's expressions during a competitive program, one has to think of whether the expression is natural (dealing with the character of the music) or choreographed because the skater has not yet attained a true feeling for the music.

    Imo, one sees the difference when the diversity of the music is evident. There's more to expression than just the opening and closing of a program.

    Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by rutinia View Post
    I think diehard fans of MK and Yuna Kim never admit Mao's "expressions". She's not intereted in "face arts" and coquettish moves. IMO, Mao is making a new standard of expressions--skating and flexibility oritented expressions, and Yuna Kim is clinging to the classic stereotype of MK.

    Some die hard MK fans prefer Mao over the rest of the eligible skaters

    "face art" ? a new term, I hear it here first. "coquettish" moves, not sure what you mean either. I can see how some fans detractors "Stereotype" MK or YuNa or Mao.

    I have to politely disagree that YuNa is clinging to anything MK. Those 2 are very different skaters. The only thing I can think of common b/w the 2, they both skated to Mulan as an exhibition piece.

    Back to topic. Mao's expression, presentation has always been just fine. Mess up jumps indeed discount the flow of the program, we see that over and over in some skater. Mao is not one that messes her jumps often, but that happens even to her. First trip to world she missed gold medal by fractions of points, not chop liver in any department for sure.
    Last edited by rtureck; 07-29-2007 at 08:59 AM.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Michelle and Yu Na are similar in that they are both lyrical skaters (completely into the music). They do not 'sell' the tricks to the public as a bravura skater would.

    Unfortunately, bravura skaters get the roar of the crowd. Are the judges influenced? You figure.

    Joe

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    Here's another video a mao in a show in Nobeyama.
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mx2OkPwv-7k
    She has her jumps, good spins and good presentation! Love it!

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    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    Mao is looking really good. I love her dress and the music and the way she interprets it is very mature and beautiful.... much better then Habrena.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rtureck View Post
    Some die hard MK fans prefer Mao over the rest of the eligible skaters
    So true! Does anyone else besides RTureck and I remember the days when we had to close threads because of big late-night fights between Michelle fans and Sasha fans? When a thread was closed we put up a big picture of little Mao -- as a skater that both sides liked equally, so at least we all had something to agree on.

    Seriously, there is no reason for fans of Michelle Kwan to dislike Mao, Yu-na, or anyone else. Michelle has never competed against these skaters, and her chances of ever doing so are slim to none.

    Will Mao or Yu-na one day match Michelle's string of World and Olympic medals? They both took the first step in 2007. The sky's the limit.
    "Face art" ? a new term, I hear it here first. "coquettish" moves, not sure what you mean either.
    For face art and coquetry, I thought first of Oksana Baiul in her pro competitions. Go Oksana!

    I do, though, somewhat disagree with Joe about the necessity of putting skaters into either the "lyrical" bag or the "bravura" bag, one or the other. IMHO the best skaters can present a variety of styles. Michelle's Aranjuez, for instance, I would put squarely in the tradition of, "step right up folks, you ain't seen nothin' yet!"

    As for Mao, she needs to get that swagger down: "I got a triple Axel, suckers -- what you got?" (Just kidding! Mao is far too sweet and nice to say anything like that. )
    Last edited by Mathman; 07-29-2007 at 02:58 PM.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Sorry MM, but those terms are written in the text books of Music and used to describe musicians and dancers. Maybe skaters are not really up to the art of classification.

    Kwan was basically a lyrical skater. How could you miss that? Her Aranjuez was a step outside her normal classification and proved how superb a skater she was. Not unlike Prima Ballerinas who are at ease dancing the White and Black Swans on the same program. The duo rolls are called lyrical and bravura. Check out Swan Lake one night if you get a chance.

    Back to Kwan. After Aranjuez, she skated well despite the ever increasing pain of her injuries, but she did not make Tosca a great Dramatic Bravura piece that one would see in the Opera. She did her triples at her lyrical best. There would be no more stepping outside her normal classification. Let's not talk too much about the Tweaking out of elements for Bolero.

    Joe

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    {Michelle's] Aranjuez was a step outside her normal classification and proved how superb a skater she was. Not unlike Prima Ballerinas who are at ease dancing the White and Black Swans on the same program. The duo rolls are called lyrical and bravura.
    That's what I was trying to say. A performer does not have to be stuck with one classification or the other. The great ones can do both. Even in the same performance there can be bravura highlights to a lyrical piece.
    ...she did not make Tosca a great Dramatic Bravura piece that one would see in the Opera.
    True, figure skating is not opera. But I thought Michelle's performance of Tosca at 2004 Nationals was right up there in terms of "Tada!, In-your-face, If-you could skate-like-this-you'd-be-Michelle-Kwan-but-you're-not!"

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    Skating is not Opera or Ballet. Moreover, an ice skating performance = less than 5 minutes. I really have no care for how much a performance trys to mimic something else. So whatever the classification, Kwan's Tosca was amazing.

    EDIT: Ah, MM shares some of my ideas it seems.

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