Most influential skater?

Mathman · Jul 29, 2007

GoldMedalist said:
She had her moments. I can remember two or three times when she gave a thumbs down to the judges for some of her technical marks.

Well, she is the Kween. I believe she said afterwards, about the judges' marks, "We were not amused." :biggrin:

Joesitz (RIP) · Jul 30, 2007

Mathman said:
Then again, a skater can be the best without being the most influential. John Curry brought ballet to figure skating, but it didn't stick. There has never been another to follow in his footsteps.

But Curry did influence a generation of choreographers with his professional touring company.

Mathman - You came to figure skating later in life and it is difficult for you to see the contributions to the sport of the earlier skaters. Curry did not bring 'ballet' (your word and you seem to use it as a negative) to figure Skating. It evolved from Albright, developed further by Flemming and crowned by Hammil. The straight leg, toe pointed, knees turn out began with Albright. DuBief brought innovation which, unfortunately, is lacking in today's skaters. Dick raised the barre so to speak with triple jumping. European Pairs were special and romantic without the WoW moves of the 6' plus man and the little woman.

What Curry brought to Figure Skating was MUSICALITY, and skaters are trying to emulate that with the HIS skaters cum choreographers even today.

You wouldn't dispose of Galileo for what he did for Astronomy as not up to today's standards. Everything in life is evolving from beginnings. So has figure skating.

Joe

Mathman · Jul 30, 2007

^ Still, I stand by my opinion that Curry was the most "balletic" skater I have ever seen ( this is a good thing) and that todays skaters don't measure up to the standards that he set. Just my opinion.

diamondqueen · Jul 30, 2007

Sonja Henie and Michelle Kwan.

diamond :rock:

gkelly · Jul 30, 2007

Mathman said:
^ Still, I stand by my opinion that Curry was the most "balletic" skater I have ever seen ( this is a good thing) and that todays skaters don't measure up to the standards that he set. Just my opinion.

Others may not measure up, but many have been influenced by his work, directly by working with him personally or consciously emulating his skating (e.g., Paul Wylie, probably Mark Mitchell, Rudy Galindo, Neil Wilson, Alizah Allen . . . Katherine Healy and all the others who skated with him as pros) or indirectly by working with coaches who had worked with him directly (e.g., David Liu would certainly qualify through his work with JoJo Starbuck; I don't know whether he had met and worked with Curry himself).

I would definitely put Curry on the list.

Hsuhs · Jul 30, 2007

Most influential skaters are already listed here:

http://www.worldskatingmuseum.org/Museum_HOF_Inductees.htm

kittyjake5 · Jul 30, 2007

Ladies: Kween Henie and Kween Kwan.

Men: Dick Buttons and John Curry.

NansXOXOX · Jul 30, 2007

Mathman said:
Who would you single out as a person who has had an immense influence on the sport of figure skating over the years?

I think Dick Button is a strong candidate.

In terms of influence, I would have to agree with you here, Mathman. This man has spent the better part of a very productive lifetime in this sport and his opinion is valued by many skaters and fans alike. Love him or hate him, people listen to him and he has done more than anyone else (skater or businessman) to shape the way competitive figure skating and show skating is seen by both those inside AND outside the sport.

Mathman · Jul 30, 2007

Hsuhs said:
Most influential skaters are already listed here:

http://www.worldskatingmuseum.org/Museum_HOF_Inductees.htm

*slaps head* How could I have forgotten 2007 U.S. inductee Charles Schulz?! :rock:

http://www.hellomarylu.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/SnoopyFigureSkating.gif

blue dog · Jul 30, 2007

NansXOXOX said:
In terms of influence, I would have to agree with you here, Mathman. This man has spent the better part of a very productive lifetime in this sport and his opinion is valued by many skaters and fans alike. Love him or hate him, people listen to him and he has done more than anyone else (skater or businessman) to shape the way competitive figure skating and show skating is seen by both those inside AND outside the sport.

I agree--I remember one year, Dick Button complained about the layback position most of the women had (I remember him calling Irina Slutskaya's mediocre), and the next year, they all had better laybacks.

Then again, the next year, Angela Nikodinov and Sasha Cohen were on the GP circuit full time...

attyfan · Jul 30, 2007

Hsuhs said:
Most influential skaters are already listed here:

http://www.worldskatingmuseum.org/Museum_HOF_Inductees.htm

Does anyone know if eligibility for the Hall of Fame(s) require a formal retirement, or, do skaters become eligible five years after their last event? (I am trying to figure out when MK and Irina will become eligible)

Joesitz (RIP) · Jul 30, 2007

Mathman said:
^ Still, I stand by my opinion that Curry was the most "balletic" skater I have ever seen ( this is a good thing) and that todays skaters don't measure up to the standards that he set. Just my opinion.

Your opinion is fine. I just don't think figure skating is ballet, and neither should it be. Ballet is a world of a different color as is figure skating as is classical Thai Dancing, etc.

Curry for me brought musicality to figure skating which was picked up by Browning. JMO.

Joe

Mathman · Jul 30, 2007

Attyfan said:
Does anyone know if eligibility for the Hall of Fame(s) require a formal retirement, or, do skaters become eligible five years after their last event? (I am trying to figure out when MK and Irina will become eligible)

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think there are formal rules about that. Kurt Browning (World Hall of Fame) and Tara Lipinski (U.S.) were both inducted in 2006 -- the same year as Frank Zamboni. :rock:

Actually, it's a pretty interesting list. There are quite a few members whose contribution was in coaching or some other off-ice activity. For instance, Eddie Shipstad was the vaudevillian who started Ice Follies.

I see that Frick is there (Werner Groebli), but not Frack (Hans Mauch). Maybe Irina Grigorean will be inducted one day. :rock:

("Mr. Frick" is not to be confused with the famous German coach, Willie Frick -- also in the Hall -- who coached Mirabel Vinson at the Boston Skating Club for many years.)

This is kind of what I was trying to get at in this thread. Being a great skater and winning a lot of medals is not the same as having a lasting influence in the sport.

I hope Lori Nichol :love:

makes it one day.

Hsuhs · Jul 30, 2007

I hope Lori Nichol makes it one day.

When zamboni's fly.

Mathman · Jul 30, 2007

Joesitz said:
Curry for me brought musicality to figure skating...

Not Jackson Haines?

Wikipedia says, "Jackson Haines (1840–1875) was an American ballet dancer and figure skater who is regarded as the father of modern figure skating.

"At this time, figure skating was performed in the "English style", which was rigid and formal. It was virtually nothing like what is performed today. Haines' style was a complete contrast to the English style; he used his ballet background to create graceful programs, and introduced accompanying music (a new concept at the time).

"He also screwed his figure skates directly onto his boots, which added stability and allowed him to do more athletic leaps and jumps. The typical practice of the time was to strap the blades onto the boot."

Hard to imagine anyone having a greater influence on the sport than that! :bow:

Ladskater · Jul 30, 2007

for the men's discipline - Toller Cranston is known as the "most influencial skater of this century." He changed men's skating forever through artistry and
even the type of skating costumes he wore.
http://www.cbc.ca/lifeandtimes/cranston.html

Joesitz (RIP) · Jul 31, 2007

Mathman said:
Not Jackson Haines?

Wikipedia says, "Jackson Haines (1840–1875) was an American ballet dancer and figure skater who is regarded as the father of modern figure skating.

"At this time, figure skating was performed in the "English style", which was rigid and formal. It was virtually nothing like what is performed today. Haines' style was a complete contrast to the English style; he used his ballet background to create graceful programs, and introduced accompanying music (a new concept at the time).

"He also screwed his figure skates directly onto his boots, which added stability and allowed him to do more athletic leaps and jumps. The typical practice of the time was to strap the blades onto the boot."

Hard to imagine anyone having a greater influence on the sport than that!

Glad to see you acknowledging early contributors to the sport and not just later than those from the eighties.

I'm all for acknowledging Jackson Haines as the originater of modern figure skating. I've been saying that for years. But it was Henie (love her or hate her)
who was most influential in popularizing the Sport.

Joe

attyfan · Jul 31, 2007

Joesitz said:
... I'm all for acknowledging Jackson Haines as the originater of modern figure skating. I've been saying that for years. But it was Henie (love her or hate her)
who was most influential in popularizing the Sport.

Joe

But, should the title of "most influential skater" be limited to the skaters who merely popularized their (already existing) discipline or sport, as opposed to the ones who created the discipline (Madge Sayers) or sport (Jackson Haines)

Germanice · Jul 31, 2007

passion said:
Without a doubt, Michelle Kwan. She is the Sonia Henie of today's era.

Whatever "today's era" meant, I'd say Kat Witt comes much closer to Henie. Cause in opposite to Kwan she won two Olympic Gold medals; apart from that she managed to gain some influence outside her homecountry.

Kwanford Wife · Jul 31, 2007

For me, I define influential for a sport in terms of gaining legendary status outside of the actual skating world - which is small, be the first AND be able to do other things based on their athletic performance with a Michael Jordan type flavor... Granted, my list is pretty much modern era because I don't know enough about ol' school skaters (ala John Curry) to have an opinion, but when has that ever stopped me?

My list includes - in no particular order:

Ladies: Michelle Kwan, Kat Witt, Kristie Y, Sonia, Dorothy, Peggy, Debi Thomas, Tonya Harding (lots of firsts with this one...) and by extenstion Nancy, Midori Ito and by extenstion DivaKwara (mainly because of their ability to ignite a country's imgination for a sport - Mao, Miki and the rest need to move it to the next level). I don't know enough about Russian ladies to make an educated guess about Irina nor am I certin if human interest in her ability to win despite obsticals is enough to make her influential vs. simply cooler than the average bear...

Men: Dick Buton, Brian B., Scott Hamilton, Kurt Browning (mainly because he made sucha statement about not letting the OGM define you), Toller Cranston

Pairs: Sergi & Ekateria

Dance: Torvell & Dean

Cheorgraphers: Tatiana and hopefully Lori Nichols (mainly because I love her...)

Most influential skater?

Mathman

Joesitz (RIP)

Mathman

diamondqueen

gkelly

Hsuhs

kittyjake5

NansXOXOX

Mathman

blue dog

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attyfan

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Joesitz (RIP)

Mathman

Hsuhs

Mathman

Ladskater

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Joesitz (RIP)

attyfan

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