Should They Return?

Ladskater · Aug 13, 2007

Just reading about the possiblity of Yags returning to competition made me think about how much competitive figure skating has changed over the years. At one time it was unheard of skaters returning to amateur competition after taking so much time off. Usually once they left the ranks of the amateur world that was it. And most of the time skaters moved on for finanacial reasons if not for injury reasons. Now they have the luxury - it would seem - to come back. I don't know if this is fair to the new bunch coming up the ranks. I know Lloyd Eisler was upset when G&G were allowed to return to amateur skating and compete in another Olympics - the 1994 games just when Lloyd and Isabelle were at their peak. Lloyd and Isabelle did win the bronze, but may have had a chance for the gold had G&G not returned. Oh well who knows? It will be interesting indeed if all the skaters mentioned do return to compete at the 2010 Games in Vancouver.

Tonichelle · Aug 13, 2007

they still had that chance... Lloyd and Izzy just didn't have the same it factor... but they possibly could have... but the style the judges liked.. it just wasn't his style... either way I don't think they'd have won gold even if Katia and Sergei hadn't been there lol

that being said I'm not sure if it's good or bad for the sport, but at the same time there aren't many pro options for skaters these days...

Fredegunda · Aug 13, 2007

Witt, T&D, Boitano etc. did not fare as well as G&G so I'm tempted to say that it doesn't really matter if the pros return or not. It could be good for the sport if it raises the bar for other skaters by forcing them to up their levels to compete with the returnees, and thereby (in theory) increasing the quality of skating.

Also, the returning pros may bring their fan bases with them. Name recognition could play an important role in viewership, and of course it's always cool from a competitive standpoint to have two Olympic champions going up against each other. Anyway, that's why I loved watching pro competitions in the mid 1990's - they featured the creme de la creme.

blue dog · Aug 13, 2007

I think, like basketball and hockey, it should all be completely OPEN. Let whoever wants to compete compete. If they can pass through the Olympic trials, or the world championships selection (usually nationals), then they deserve to compete. Besides, I think Cinquanta is getting so desperate he might allow this.

RE: B/S vs G/G - a lot of factors went into this. Skate order had a lot to do with who won that night, because not all the pairs were clean during the competition! If we were to base it on the LP, then the winners should've been Michkoutienok and Dmitriev (who themselves had returned to amateur competition, as they had competed in world pros the year before), who didn't make as noticeable mistakes as G/G (Sergei singled the double salchow sequence) and B/S (Isabelle two-footed, and glided on two feet on the throw triple toe).

Joesitz (RIP) · Aug 13, 2007

blue dog said:
I think, like basketball and hockey, it should all be completely OPEN. Let whoever wants to compete compete.

Not as open as you think. In team sports there are 'farm' teams where the drudgery of waiting to be called up to the majors may be so long that it will be too late for most aspiring players to get to the majors. There are Rules for those sports, too.

Joe

sillylionlove · Aug 13, 2007

I think that we have to remember that in 1994 a great deal of figure skaters returned. That's because the previous Olympics were in 1992. The next Olympics were not to happen until 1996 but the changed in the schedule of the Olympics made them change it in 1994. I don't think many skaters from 1994 or earlier were expecting that. With the quick turn around in the Olympics they needed to generate interest so they let many skaters come back. This isn't the case now. Should be interesting.

Fred Goss · Aug 13, 2007

I thought it took a certain amount of brass for Lloyd Eisler to complain
about returning pros when 1994 was his 4th Olympics.

His attittude seemed to be, "It's not fair, we would win if only
those teams that are better than us were not allowed to compete.."

Fred

Ptichka · Aug 13, 2007

Lloyd wasn't the only one who complained about G&G returning; Naumov was equally hurt that it robbed him of any Olympic medal at all.

In any case, I think the rules as they exist now are a bit silly. I understand the amateur/ professional distinction as it was in the old days; however, putting people into the "ineligible" status just because they take park in a competition... This is clearly about what's good for the ISU's pocketbook, not what's good for the sport. At most, I understand the rules about having to do GP (or not doing other shows at the same time) if you want to do Euros/ Worlds. As for everything else - nah.

Tinymavy15 · Aug 13, 2007

i don't see anything wrond with retired skaters making a comeback, after all how many of us wished we hadn't quit that great job? But I feel that these desicions to return should be made by the skater with no pressure from federations etc.

Joesitz (RIP) · Aug 13, 2007

Tinymavy15 said:
i don't see anything wrond with retired skaters making a comeback, after all how many of us wished we hadn't quit that great job? But I feel that these desicions to return should be made by the skater with no pressure from federations etc.

But Toni - I always think of you as one who is into the glamor of figure skating, not the sport of figure skating.

That being said, I think you should then say Figure Skating should be the competition, and not differentiate between eligible and not eligible. btw, I doubt it will bring back Sunday afternoon clown acts which the general public began to get away from anyway. Just keep the old timers doing their holiday routines, and of course, there is always SOI and COI or have these two also been winding down?
Joe

attyfan · Aug 13, 2007

IMO, any of the "old champs" who thinks they can compete with the young "up-and-comers" should have the opportunity to do so. After all, who would someone like Daisuke rather beat -- someone like Yags/Plushy, with the OGM and multiple world title, or, someone like Brian Joubert, whose competitive record, while good, is still much less stellar than the others? I see no reason why the youngun's should be given a false aura of skating greatness , simply because they are not competing against the "old champs", rather than an aura earned by beating them.

Joesitz (RIP) · Aug 13, 2007

There are many reasons for bringing back the 'old champs' and I don't think they have to be champs. All retired skaters should have the right to comeback, and if the Men can beat Daisuke, and Ladies can beat Mao, so be it.

It's an In Your Dreams scenario for 'old retirees'.

Joe

Tonichelle · Aug 13, 2007

Joesitz said:
But Toni - I always think of you as one who is into the glamor of figure skating, not the sport of figure skating.

um, Joe - one... I didn't post that (ie I'm not Tinymavy)

and two, I still don't get where you come off saying all I'm into is the glamor of the sport. If that's all I am, why am I even on GS? I may not understand the tech talk, or the point system. I may not even care to know, but that doesn't make me less of a fan or one that's just into the glitz and glam. Anymore I'm not into any of it...

Joesitz (RIP) · Aug 13, 2007

Tonichelle said:
um, Joe - one... I didn't post that (ie I'm not Tinymavy)

and two, I still don't get where you come off saying all I'm into is the glamor of the sport. If that's all I am, why am I even on GS? I may not understand the tech talk, or the point system. I may not even care to know, but that doesn't make me less of a fan or one that's just into the glitz and glam. Anymore I'm not into any of it...

I apologize Tony. It was not my intent to put you down. I know how sensitive some people are and will be more careful the next time.

Joe

Eeyora · Aug 13, 2007

I think with the popularity of skating in the sad state it is today we need the names to comeback. In 94 the return of Boitano, Petrenko, Witt and Torvill and Dean may have been disappoinbting for some but it gave the sport more publicity(okay I will admit a lot was due to Nancy/Tonya) but people watched and skaters like Lu Chen, Oksana Baiul, Elvis Stoijko, Philippe Candeloro and Grishuk and Platov beat them and got fan bases from the exposure.

Ladskater · Aug 13, 2007

Tonichelle said:
they still had that chance... Lloyd and Izzy just didn't have the same it factor... but they possibly could have... but the style the judges liked.. it just wasn't his style... either way I don't think they'd have won gold even if Katia and Sergei hadn't been there lol

that being said I'm not sure if it's good or bad for the sport, but at the same time there aren't many pro options for skaters these days...

I think they would have won gold or they may have won silver. They had a great season and were on a roll and had finally "earned" their spot at the top as it were. It was still the old judging system and skaters had to pay their dues. Lloyd and Isabelle certainly had by then. They were in the judges favour. I think bad boy, Lloyd was frustrated when he learned skaters who had turned pro were returning for the Games. However, they were excititng to watch nontheless and gave it their all. Anyway, bronze is nothing to sneeze at. I was very proud of them and thought they did great.

Ladskater · Aug 13, 2007

Fred Goss said:
I thought it took a certain amount of brass for Lloyd Eisler to complain
about returning pros when 1994 was his 4th Olympics.

His attittude seemed to be, "It's not fair, we would win if only
those teams that are better than us were not allowed to compete.."

Fred

I don't think so. I can understand the other skater's frustrations. G&G had already won the Olympic title in Calgary in 1988 and had since moved on to pro skating. Of course it did not work in 1994 for all the returning skaters - so it will be interesting to see what happens in Vancouver.

Tonichelle · Aug 14, 2007

there were still the other russian teams to consider...

let's face it, Lloyd focussed more on that stupid issue than on his skating... he can blame reinstatement all he wants, but they weren't flawless so it's not like they were "robbed." As fun as they are to watch they, for me and others, were better pro skaters as far as programs went...

Ptichka · Aug 14, 2007

Tonichelle said:
there were still the other russian teams to consider...

Technically, Mishkitenok and Dmitriev went pro after '92, and reinstated for '94. In either case, both M&D and G&G were clearly stronger than B&E. Of course, had both of those teams been out of the Olympics, the gold might have gone to Shishkova & Naumov (who did get gold at Worlds following the Olympics).

blue dog · Aug 14, 2007

Ptichka said:
Technically, Mishkitenok and Dmitriev went pro after '92, and reinstated for '94. In either case, both M&D and G&G were clearly stronger than B&E. Of course, had both of those teams been out of the Olympics, the gold might have gone to Shishkova & Naumov (who did get gold at Worlds following the Olympics).

Then that means Meno and Sand could've gotten bronze. But, I think the results were just right in 94. None of the pairs were perfect--not all skated their absolute best, but were very very good, and showcased great skating.

Should They Return?

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