What's Your Take on the GOLD?

Re: What's Your Take on the GOLD?

>No offense but post like "Grand Prix is almost as important as Worlds and the Olympics is much more prestigious" reminded me once again how people form their opinion based on their favorite's competitive record.

And on what are those opinions based that the Olympics gold is not so important, LOL? >

Jaana,

I don't know about the others, but my opinion on the OMG wasn't based on how my favorite performed at the Olympics.

My all-time favorite is Alexie. I was so proud of him when he rose to the occasion in SLC and won gold. But I found myself equally (if not more) proud of Michelle when she went on to compete at Worlds in Japan and came back this year to win her 5th Worlds' title. Then I realized that an athlete's internal strength, competitiveness and repeated excellence represent the very essence of sports, more than an OMG.

Re: What's Your Take on the GOLD?

And my opinion about the Olympic gold as the ultimate title is definetely not influenced because Ilia Kulik won in the Olympics, LOL. As posted earlier I had that opinion already before he was born...

And I´m not diminishing any other skaters, those who have not won the Olympic gold. All skaters are admirable for something, especially those who have a long career and many titles. On the other hand if one has all the other titles but not that of an Olympic champion, the utlimate title is lacking from that collection.

Marjaana

Re: What's Your Take on the GOLD?

<em>No offense but post like "Grand Prix is almost as important as Worlds and the Olympics is much more prestigious" reminded me once again how people form their opinion based on their favorite's competitive record.</em>

I think forming opinions based on favorites doesn't really ring true for me. I'm sure Irina's fans (after one non podium Oly and one second place Oly) are not complaining about which event is prestigous. Irina has a storehouse of medals including gold in Worlds and many golds in GP Finals.

There are two statements in these threads which, for me, do really ring true:

Timing, (and maybe venue). Also the Big Worlds which comes every 4 years. Basically with the same skaters from the previous 4 years in Worlds and GPs. However, for the skaters it is that <em>Jewel in the Crown</em> but for the sports minded viewer it is a first place for that event whose results could be totally different on the next night.

Who will wear that jewel next time out? I wouldn't dare to answer that. too many factors involved including the age of the skater. Will there be yet another 16yo win. It's possible.

Joe

Re: What's Your Take on the GOLD?

No complaint here........Ilia not only took advantage of the mistakes of others, he skated the skate of his career when it mattered the most. He was then and is now a brilliant skater and worthy of the Oly win...........42

Re: What's Your Take on the GOLD?

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"And on what are those opinions based that the Olympics gold is not so important, LOL? Surely (at least mostly) not on opinions of those whose favourite skater has won an Olympic gold..."[/quote]:rollin: You got me, Marjaana. My first love was Kristi, and I thought the Olympic Gold medal was the pearl beyond price. Now that Michelle is my new girl -- oh, it's not <em>that</em> big a deal, LOL.

Mathman

PS. In an interview just before the 2002 Olympics, Kristi said, Whoever wins the Olympic gold medal it will change their life. Unless it's Michelle -- she is already as famous as it is possible to be in U.S. figure skating.

Re: What's Your Take on the GOLD?

Interesting topic.

IMHO, the Olympic title is the ultimate prize for skating, as much as I hate to say it because Michelle hasn't won it. I agree with some who suggested that had she won it, her fans who say it's not that important would have said otherwise. Whether the Oly title is very important or not depends on the sport per se.

In tennis for example, it's one of the least important titles for a player other than its symbolic significance. Heck, even the least important and coveted grandslam -the Australia Open carries 1000X more significance than an Oly gold. I kid you not. Winning a grandslam changes a player's life instantly and my God, we have 4 grandslams per year. To illustrate that, when Jennifer Capriati won the Oly Gold in 1992, it was ho-hum in the tennis world. But when she won her first grandslam (the least coveted one-the Australian Open) in 2001, it was huge huge news. She was hailed as an elite player instantly.

Back to figure skating, the Olympic title is the most coveted and prized, it's equivalent to Wimbledon - the most coveted title of them all in tennis. Let's not kid ourselves as Michelle fans, if it weren't, she wouldn't have dreamed of winning it at 5 and gone through major disappointments and tears twice. It's just that she has finally wrestled her Oly demons out her system, thank God for that. Now, 1 world title is surpassed easily by 1 Oly gold, but 3-5 world titles speak volume collectively. To me, 3 world titles equal 1 Oly title, and 4-5 world titles are definitely better. It takes decades for another skater to achieve that and to achieve that in the triple-jump era is the most amazing feat ever.

In figure skating, something strange has happened as far the Olympics are concerned. Michelle has proven to be a masterful alchemist. She turned silver and bronze into gold. I have done some research and (correct me if I'm wrong), the only other female skater who had done that was Janet Lynn. What she and Michelle did wouldn't be achieved by any other female skater. Can someone tell me, other than Michelle, who else has remained more popular, earned more money from endorsements, earned more respects from her peers, fans and legends than the Oly champion herself. With that, I just have to say, the Oly gold is the most important title and it applies to everyone except Michelle.

Lastly, I am pleased to see that the Oly gold is beginning to diminish in its value and significance in figure skating - thanks to Oksana, Tara, Sarah (no disrespect meant to them) and to Michelle the alchemist.

Re: What's Your Take on the GOLD?

Interesting comments on this thread, Apache. I tend to agree with what you said. Your 1 OGM = 3 World Championships is right on the money.....42

Re: What's Your Take on the GOLD?

I especially love Elvis Stojko has a skater, just because he was not liked for his style in skating, was not a just cause not to be elegible for the gold, like in 94, he was second to Urmanov, but what do we remember from Urmanov, not that much, but Elvis, boy do people like him and remember him for what he did for figure skating by believing is his chances no matter what style he was, he wanted to be thru to himself, would we love him skate to some romatic or more smooth style?? he just do not have the BODY type for that, but why does style is the deciding factor for the gold??? Wasn't he the best in 94 in Lillahmer?? Yes he was, Urmanov did some major mistakes in is long and he did win on the presentation mark, why does it always has to be like this??? Some skater could come tomorrow and have a great style and do not have the jumps and would they give it to her or he??? Like the topic of this thread, the BODY, the whole, is something to consider, Elvis was exceptional in his own way, this is a skater in my own opinion that was deserving and presented a gold medal performance and never got it.

Just to mention, Kurt Browning, is an exceptional skater, boy his he special, his owl body language when he skates speaks for itself, but never could deliver under the pressure of olympic light, but just like Michelle Kwan, is very deserving for a gold upon its carreer, it is a sadness when I see some skaters like Michelle and Kurt not being able to win their gold that they so derserves. But even without the olympic gold, we will always remember them, for what they brought to the skating world and so many special performances. They are icon in the skating family. They will always be remembered. I prefer those two icons to someone like Urmanov, Lipinski or Hughes who did win olympic gold medals but was not there after and was unable to deliver after that. Except Lipinski, who turned professional before she was major, so lot of people wont remember her, that does not take anything to her performance in Nagano.

We always remember longevity and BODY then one olympic gold.

This is my opinion, maybe some people wont share it, but this is the way I see this. I am french and I tried to express my thoughts the best way I could, I hope people will be able to read me and comprehend me.

Re: What's Your Take on the GOLD?

You always express yourself with perfect clarity, SkateFan. I wish my (nonexistent) French was as good as your English.

Elvis certainly has a unique style. He was determined throughout his career to be his own man and not try to copy what other skaters were doing. And the best part is, he is coming back to eligible competition next year!

Toller Cranston was another skater who never won an Olympic gold medal, but had more of an impact on the sport than many who did.

Mathman

Re: What's Your Take on the GOLD?

Hi Mathman, thank you again, your opinion is always appreciated. thanks for your response to me on my clarity, I am so happy to see that my english is that good. thanks again.

Also, I am very happy about Elvis coming back, I am canadian and was always behind him, he is such a great skater, he is the one who brought the quads to skating that much, the quad-triple, he was the first to do it in competition I believe, also, I really hope the best for him coming back. If he can do the quads-triples again, boy will he give a battle for gold.

Importance of Gold

Before 1994, I was only a casual skating fan and of course the Olympics were paramount. I never watched any other competition but that. Whoever wore Gold at the Olympics was the absolute best in the sport at that point. Things changed after Lillehammer, especially when I saw so many incredible performances. Nancy, Elvis, Kurt and Chen Lu were all wonderful...and not a gold medal among them. It's also strange when I go to list my favorites in skating...none of them are Olympic Champions: Kwan, Chen Lu, Kerrigan, Stojko, Eldredge, Browning, Wylie. Maybe I just love an ironic, sad story! (LOL, I must love the Silver Medalists!) The best...but not on the right night. It would be foolish to say that the Olympics aren't huge and considered the ultimate prize, but personally they don't mean what they used to to me. I love figure skating and am an ardent fan now, I see that there is so much more to a career than six minutes of skating. But I will say that Lipinski and Hughes were incredible, the Olympics seemed to light a fire within them and pushed them beyond what I thought was possible for either of them. So...if you're 15-16 and the underdog, the Olympics seem to be the trendy place to perform skates of a lifetime!

Re: Importance of Gold

>Skatefan33
I especially love Elvis Stojko has a skater, just because he was not liked for his style in skating, was not a just cause not to be elegible for the gold, like in 94, he was second to Urmanov, but what do we remember from Urmanov, not that much, but Elvis, boy do people like him and remember him for what he did for figure skating by believing is his chances no matter what style he was, he wanted to be thru to himself, would we love him skate to some romatic or more smooth style?? >

I think that opinion about Urmanov vs. Stojko depends on what people you are speaking of and where one is living...? You see there is also lots of life and opinions outside NA, LOL. Urmanov has been popular e.g. in Europe, and it is not long ago as he participated on a tour e.g. in Germany. Besides after the 1994 Olympics Urmanov participated in eligible competitions (many European Championships!!!) until his injury, and he came back after that and was again seen at Europeans here (and of course from Worlds on TV). Skating fans e.g. in Europe remember the Olympic champion Urmanov very well, I would say.

And in Lillehammer Olympics, Stojko was not even close to winning the freeskate. Only one judge put him first, six of them prefered Urmanov, the Canadian judge among them.

Marjaana

Re: Importance of Gold

At 15 or 16, you can throw caution to the wind and give it your best shot. You know you can come back in 4 years and do it all over again if you fail. That type of mentality seems to be a winning attitude at least in the last 3 Olympics. It will be fun to watch and see who can do it this next time around.

Re: Importance of Gold

Doesn´t that mentality kind of apply to every (top) skater in their first Olympics? Most of the skaters have been rather young when they participated the first time, haven´t they? As far as I remember e.g. Kwan was 17 in Nagano? Men mostly are a bit older. On the other hand I think that most important is how well the skater is able to concentrate on what she/he has to do at the Olympics... To block all other thoughts, etc. I think that Paul Martini put all that very well in Nagano Olympics broadcast.

LOL, yes, it will be fun to watch who succeeds in Turin...

Marjaana

Re: Importance of Gold

Just to follow up on the comments made on Urmanov not being popular in NA. He was probably the most ignored Olympic Champion in NA. Skating promoters didn't seem to embrace him the way they embraced other great Russian skaters. But why? I listed some possible reasons but none seemed to explain it.

Bad English? His English was quite good when he won OGM. I thought he spoke English better than Plushy does today.

Not moving to US? Plushy and Irina both live in Russia but they tour with COI every year.

Competitive record? He was an Olympic and European Champion. Irina was on COI well before her first World's title. Urmanov missed the podium at World's one year and he was dropped from COI cast. Irina didn't compete at Worlds this year but she was invited back to COI. I like Irina so I'm not complaining here. I'm just puzzled by the double standard.

Style too European? Victor P had a very classic style but he was offered lucrative deals.

Controversial win over a NA favorite? Wasn't Oksana's win over Nancy more controversial? Yet Oksana became a COI headliner afterwards.

Small fan base? Well, just how big a fan base did Victor P have when he turned pro?

Bad personality? He seemed to be a considerate guy. Not the trouble maker type.

Any insight?

Re: Importance of Gold

Well, based on what I have read and of course on my own opinions, LOL, I would say that

- Urmanov vs. Oksana Baiul: Oksana is a girl and what is more important, she had "a story". That kind of thing seems to be so important in some countries.

- Urmanov vs. Petrenko: I think it is a question of skating style, programmes and also the costumes (on the other hand Ilia´s RiB costume was very much ridiculed also). Petrenko won over Wylie, but Wylie was though not seen as a favourite to win in Olympics, I believe, so skating fans probably just were very glad about Wylie´s placement?

I sure have understood how extremely unpopular Urmanov´s win over Stojko was in NA. I think it is because of NA people´s huge expectations for Lillehammer. In that Olympics were several NA Olympic champion possibilities: Boitano, Browning and Stojko. And as I mentioned already above, the result was not even close between Urmanov and Stojko.

Yes, Ilia Kulik was invited to COI although he was fifth in 1997 Worlds..., and Urmanov was dropped as he was not on the podium. Anyone know if Urmanov was on 1995 COI tour? He was fourth at Worlds in that year = also out of podium.

I remember though some of US friends complaining that Urmanov cancelled US appearences, he was invited to some events (single shows?), but did not come from what ever reason. I think that more than once Ilia replaced him (not just because of an injury).

What Urmanov would have needed for NA desperately, was a different choreographer and also costume designer. He is one of the best looking (if not the very best-looking) guy among skaters of today (in my opinion).

Marjaana

Re: What's Your Take on the GOLD?

I feel that to truly measure a skater and their ability one must look at the overall package over a period of time. We have had people that have come and gone quickly, but the skaters that remain with the sport and give back are the champions in my opinion...gold medal or not. Getting to any level of Olympic competition requires a certain amount of athleticism and talent...no matter the athlete or the popularity. They got there based on some amount of merit. What a person does once they get to the level is a true test of character.

Re: What's Your Take on the GOLD?

Urmanov's victory was based on the fact that he didn't fall on the night of nights.

His problems with not overwhelming the NAs were: 1: not known by many NAs; 2. Costuming: not the ideal for NA taste; 3. it was Elvis's year with Todd to pick up the pieces if Elvis faulted; 4. His skate was too carefully executed - too slow at times, and it was without anything memorable. 5 the crowd was not with him.

Did he deserve to win? probably but not convincingly.

Was he a better skater than Elvis before the competition?

Did the gold medal mean he was the Best of All male skaters for the next four years? or just that night?

With Elvis at this best and Urmanov at his best, do you think Elvis would win?

It's nice to win Gold, but does it tell the whole story?

Joe

"The Gold"

Many people seem to denigrate the OGM. But if it's so unimportant, why is it that when someone mentions "the GOLD," you automatically assume we're supposed to be talking about the OGM?

I'm a fan of Sarah Hughes for the body of her work. I started following her career when I saw her at the Jr. GPF in spring 99. The fact she now is the reigning Olympic champion is icing on the cake.

Re: "The Gold"

Actually, the only reason why I don't need to ask "what gold?" is because I know what competitions are going on at the time and who is in them. If someone was randomly speaking about a past event and I missed the title or context, I would have to ask "what gold?" Most of the time we can read a whole thread on the Forums so the question isn't necessary anyway.

I think that goes back to my feelings that the Olympic gold isn't more important than World gold. They are equal in my book. The Olympics is every 4 years so it's "rare" but the Worlds now has 3 programs so that makes it harder. Just review any competition to find out how hard it is for skaters to put together 2 clean programs much less 3.