Comments from Piseev (10/22) | Golden Skate

Comments from Piseev (10/22)

maureend

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
http://www.vremya.ru/2007/193/11/189663.html

Some Piseev comments – article 10/22/07

“Last year several team members retired: Klimkin, Volchkova, Sokolova and Petrova-Tikhonov. Volchkova and Klimkin were forced to quit by injury. Viktoria is now coaching, assisting Viktor Kudryavtsev, who will turn 70 on Oct. 24th. Elena Sokolova threw her energies to the wind, in my view, and only said she was serious about training, but never demonstrated it. As for Petrova-Tikhonov – well, there’s nothing to say except that time takes its toll. We are grateful to them for supporting us in difficult times. By the way, they belong to the athletes’ commission and we hope they will help our young athletes.”

“Unfortunately, Obertas-Slavnov decided to skip the season. It’s hard to predict what type of attitude they’ll have to work, as it all depends on Yulia’s ability to overcome her psychological barriers to difficult jumps. Two young pairs that did well last season split: Elena Efaeva-Aleksei Menshikov :eek:hwell: and Darya Kazyuchitz-Sergei Roslyakov. Menshikov finished 6th at Europeans last year, but quite skating. The other 3 are seeking partners.”


Hopes for“Most of all in dance – Domnina-Shabalin, Khohlova-Novitski. They all showed good new programs at the test skate. Domnina-Shabalin got new stimulus for competing as they were awarded new flats. Svinin and Zhuk’s students show good progress. We also have a reserve with potential : Bobrova-Solovev, Mikhailova-Maxsimishin, Rubleva-Shefer (that will compete at 1st GP), Monko-Tkachenko, Pushkash-Kiselev, Ryzanova-Gureiro…In all junior competitions, our dancers are nearly always in the top 3.

“As for pairs…Kawaguchi-Smirnov, Muhortova-Trankov….in Finland they skated cleanly and did several triple jumps.”

“.....Jerome Blanchard is French. He needs permission from his federation to compete. Twice we have requested it and been denied. We’ll try ourselves, and soon will get the documents for Russian citizenship. I’ve already talked with the head of “Russian Sport” Vyacheslav Fetisov. He promised to help.”

…”About girls…only one name Arina Martinova. But she isn’t ready for the results achieved by Korean and Japanese girls yet. Still we have several very young girls, 11-12 years old and already doing the most difficult elements – Elizaveta Tuktamisheva, Evgenia Pochufarova, Adelina Sotnikova and Polina Shelepen. We prepare them for Sochi…”
 

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Still we have several very young girls, 11-12 years old and already doing the most difficult elements – Elizaveta Tuktamisheva, Evgenia Pochufarova, Adelina Sotnikova and Polina Shelepen. We prepare them for Sochi…”
That's almost reasonable (assuming he doesn't put them down publicly and destroy their confidence on their way to Soichi).

Thank you, maureend!!!
 

oleada

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
I think Russia will be ok. They've shown this season that they have good depth in Juniors (well, except for ladies). So even though they might not ever bring in the same amount of medals ever again, I think they'll still be a strong power in figure skating.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
11 and 12 year old skaters often do very well until they go through rapid growth and puberty, when the jumps they were once able to do so easily become beyond their capabilities. That Russia has no 'promising' ladies in the age 13-18 category is bad news.
 

Kasey

Medalist
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
and the only mentions of the men's state of skating right now: That the various senior skaters (Lutai, Dobrin, Griazev, Uspenski, Voronov) all are at similar levels and the internal (national) events, they are very competitive.

And regarding Plushenko and Yagudin wanting to return competitively.....basically he says neither one is a current option, although Plushenko of course does not require reinstatement....it sounds like he hasn't worked too much on looking into that for Yagudin yet (if even he will), and it doesn't sound like he's expecting Plushenko to be competitive at all this year. But that's just the tone I got from it, it could be wrong.
 

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
11 and 12 year old skaters often do very well until they go through rapid growth and puberty, when the jumps they were once able to do so easily become beyond their capabilities. That Russia has no 'promising' ladies in the age 13-18 category is bad news.
It's not bad news -- it's expected given the gap for training in the 90's and early 2000's, because they didn't have a crop of 11- and 12-year olds doing difficult jumps before that, from whom a few 13-18-year-olds would have emerged.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
My point was that doing difficult jumps at 10 or 11 is not a harbinger of success later on. Many of those early wonders get injured and don't continue, and others lose their jumps when they go through puberty.

Two seasons back, Russia had a promising young skater, Veronica Kropotina, who qualified for the JGPF in 2005-2006 after winning a gold and a silver. She was withdrawn from the JGPF and she never skated internationally again.

If Russia is basing their hopes for the future on one or two 10-11 year-olds, that is NOT a good thing.
 

Mafke

Medalist
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Well correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't think Russia has _ever_ developed a system for developing ladies skaters (unlike pairs, dance and men and unlike the US and Japan).

I've always had the impression that what success Russian ladies have achieved has been due to them being essentially self-starters that didn't need much in the way of institutional support (if anything they achieved what they did in _spite_ of the program they came up through). JMO
 

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
And I'm sure the four he mentioned will get dumped if they don't perform on cue, but to have four skaters at a good level suggests that the coaches are aiming high after making do for over a decade and are taking Ladies training seriously.
 

oxade21

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 24, 2004
My point was that doing difficult jumps at 10 or 11 is not a harbinger of success later on. Many of those early wonders get injured and don't continue, and others lose their jumps when they go through puberty.

Two seasons back, Russia had a promising young skater, Veronica Kropotina, who qualified for the JGPF in 2005-2006 after winning a gold and a silver. She was withdrawn from the JGPF and she never skated internationally again.

If Russia is basing their hopes for the future on one or two 10-11 year-olds, that is NOT a good thing.

Well, Taktemesheva is already competing at international events with fantastic results. I agree that the puberty can bring anyone down. But this girl has not only tirple jumps but very good basics and senior level maturity to her skating. She also has been under special scrutiny and training by Professor himself. And he does not like to train women. So, there is hope.
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Well correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't think Russia has _ever_ developed a system for developing ladies skaters (unlike pairs, dance and men and unlike the US and Japan).
Actually, if you are talking about the Soviet system, it did lean toward pairs and dance; both ladies and men got equally less attention. Remember, USSR has never had an OGM in either of those disciplines. OTOH, I don't think it's fair to say that those who did succeed did so "in spite" of the system; just because there were more resources diverted to pairs and dance does not mean there weren't any for singles.
 

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
My point was that doing difficult jumps at 10 or 11 is not a harbinger of success later on. Many of those early wonders get injured and don't continue, and others lose their jumps when they go through puberty.

Two seasons back, Russia had a promising young skater, Veronica Kropotina, who qualified for the JGPF in 2005-2006 after winning a gold and a silver. She was withdrawn from the JGPF and she never skated internationally again.

If Russia is basing their hopes for the future on one or two 10-11 year-olds, that is NOT a good thing.

You are right. Look over quite a few years Russia's success at the junior level in womens (not so much right now, but for quite a long time), and how many of their successful juniors never go anywhere as seniors. I still remember the 1996 World juniors where Russia swept the podium, whereas someone named Tara Lipinski was relegated to 5th place by the Russian onslaught, and the bronze medalist was actually a few months younger then Tara. 1 year later Tara is World Champion, 2 years later Olympic Champion, and none of those 3 Russians ever even made it to Senior Worlds.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Piseev speaks out publicly on the state of figure skating in Russia and offers his opinions of various skaters. Does any other coach be so outspoken in the Sport while it is still in active competition?

I am sure well known American, Canadian, French, Japanese, Chinese also have opinions, but one never hears them except close friends and maybe the public years from now.

Joe
 

Mafke

Medalist
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Actually, if you are talking about the Soviet system, it did lean toward pairs and dance; both ladies and men got equally less attention. Remember, USSR has never had an OGM in either of those disciplines. OTOH, I don't think it's fair to say that those who did succeed did so "in spite" of the system; just because there were more resources diverted to pairs and dance does not mean there weren't any for singles.

I don't just mean amount of resources that singles skaters got compared to pairs and dance (and the USSR had many, many more successful male than female singles) I mean (how to phrase this...) they that first the USSR then the Russian programs have never figured out how to coach young women skating singles so that they're successful. The success that has happened has been because the skaters were good, not because of their training.

Let's put it this way, even given the cultural differences I can't imagine what Piseev was trying to accomplish by publicly dissing Sokolova so often and so vehemently. I can imagine that maybe that could motivate (some) young men I can't imagine it motivating most young women.
 

JonnyCoop

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Let's put it this way, even given the cultural differences I can't imagine what Piseev was trying to accomplish by publicly dissing Sokolova so often and so vehemently. I can imagine that maybe that could motivate (some) young men I can't imagine it motivating most young women.

This sort of ties in with one of the theories (possibly the main theory) as to why the USSR was never able to develop strong skaters in Ladies at the senior level. The theory is (and I believe it was a former Soviet coach who said it, if all my skating books weren't boxed up in the garage I'd be able to find out exactly who said it) that the problem was, the Soviet coaches trained the girls the same way they trained the boys -- relentlessly and all out. Most of the boys were able to power through it, but the girls could only take this kind of training up to a certain age and then -- burnout city. This, plus the fact it's not unusual, regardless of what "system" is being employed in coaching, for talented 13, 14, 15 year old girls to hit 16 or 17 and then their jumps start to go south. The amount of girls on that list, from all countries, would take up a couple of rolls of toilet paper.....
 

Mafke

Medalist
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
This sort of ties in with one of the theories (possibly the main theory) as to why the USSR was never able to develop strong skaters in Ladies at the senior level. The theory is ... the Soviet coaches trained the girls the same way they trained the boys -- relentlessly and all out. Most of the boys were able to power through it, but the girls could only take this kind of training up to a certain age and then -- burnout city. This, plus the fact it's not unusual, regardless of what "system" is being employed in coaching, for talented 13, 14, 15 year old girls to hit 16 or 17 and then their jumps start to go south.

Yeah, I was thinking something like that. I would also doubt that 'most' of the boys were able to power through it, just more boys than girls could.

As for the puberty monster, I can easily imagine young female skaters having growth trouble with their jumps and just being discarded (when possibly with patience and training the jumps were recoverable). For that matter, it's easy for me to imagine any skater in that system going thru a rough patch being discarded as hopeless. IIRC they had been trying to get rid of Butyrskaya for years before she finally won Europeans and weren't supportive of Slutskaya when she had problems either.
 

skateskate

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 13, 2006
It's amazing, how things changed. Totmianina in her 14 had all triple jumps. She finished 12th at senior Nationals (last, where she competed as a single skater), the rivalry must have been very strong. She switched pairs, because she had no chances in the ladies. I believe, Tatiana could be on the russian ladies podium today :p. After being paired up, during junior years Totmianina and Marinin did side-by-side 2A, 3Lo, 3T, 3S and 3Lz. Now russian junior pairs are mostly doing only 2A.
 

Mafke

Medalist
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
It's amazing, how things changed. Totmianina in her 14 had all triple jumps. .... She switched pairs, because she had no chances in the ladies.

Now that's interesting.

I'm reminded of Galina Maniachenko (later Efremenko) who switched from pairs to singles. She always looked a little lost in singles to me (as if she were wondering where her partner had disappeared to, he was just here a moment ago...)

Totmianina always had a strong singles vibe (for me) as if she weren't quite sure where this guy came from and what exactly he was supposed to be doing. oh well," she seemed to be thinking "at least he seems to know this program, I might as well humor him."
 
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