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Thread: Change Edge Spirals All Look Alike

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Change Edge Spirals All Look Alike

    There doesn't seem to be much variety in the Spiral Sequence of competitive skating. It looks like there will be a forward inside spiral and as the change edge is about to happen a hand will start to grasp a folded spiral on the forward outside edge. None of it is as smooth as Kwan's change edge spiral, imo.

    After that is completed the Spiral Fan happens. The sequence to me is the same as a three turn - standard. Is it not possible to have an innovation, or are all competitors compelled to do the same thing?

    Judging, of course will be on edging, and I suppose how high the original spiral free leg gets? What else should the judges look for, if anything?

    Joe

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    Alissa has pretty interesting and very beautiful spiral sequence in her Swan SP.

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    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    i would love to see some skaters do a back change of edge spiral... a back charlotte on a straight edge!. there are so many beautiful positions.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Judging, of course will be on edging, and I suppose how high the original spiral free leg gets? What else should the judges look for, if anything?
    According to the GOE guidelines, this is what the judges are supposed to look for:

    * pattern shape and size

    * energy and focus (perhaps more important for step sequences than spirals)

    * speed and flow

    * control and committment of whole body

    * extension and flexibility

    (Interestingly, edge quality is not specifically listed.)

    To get positive GOEs from the judges, you have to be superior in several of these aspects.

    But IMHO the problem -- the reason all spirals look the same -- is because the rules for the levels are quite specific and pretty much dictate to the skaters what they must do to achieve a high mark on the element. The level is called by the tech specialist and is out of the hands of the judges.

    Since the level is more important CoP-wise than the GOE, skaters must concentrate on putting in the required number of changes of position, etc., rather than on the 5 GOE criteria (extension, etc.)

    For instance, a level 1 spiral with a whopping +3 GOE and a level 2 spiral with a substantial +2 GOE both net the skater 3.3 points.

    If that same skater blows off the GOE -- who cares about quality? -- and instead does all the required positions, edges, etc., to get a level 4 from the caller, with 0 GOE from the judges -- that skater gets 3.4 points.

    Of course a skater who doesn't do a spiral at all but does land a double Axel gets 3.5 points.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    i would love to see some skaters do a back change of edge spiral
    Here's one (toward the end of the sequence):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w60uFjJ9KWE

    She did a more highlighted back change of edge in this year's version of the spiral sequence at Skate America, but I can't give you a direct link.

    ... a back charlotte on a straight edge!
    What do you mean by a straight edge? If you mean a flat, that won't count as part of the spiral sequence but some skaters do them as transitions.

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    Tripping on the Podium skates's Avatar
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    watch michelle's fields of gold if you want to see a back change of edge spiral

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    Quote Originally Posted by skates View Post
    watch michelle's fields of gold if you want to see a back change of edge spiral
    Michelle did a beautiful charlotte.....However, the rules changed this season and many skaters who were able to do a charlotte on a straight edge last year as part of their spiral sequence and got HUGE bonuses ------no longer do so.

    The charlotte MUST be on an edge - outside or inside, and of course must be held for at least three seconds to count as part of the spiral sequence.

    Any spiral or change of edge done on a flat or straight line is not counted this season. Rationale being that it is more difficult to do things on an edge.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Thanks MM for the breakdown on what to watch for in a Spiral. That's a hoot that they do not list Edging.

    The change edge comes from if I remember correctly Figure 6B of the School Figures, Forward Inside edge, rise slightly and fall slightly into a Forward Outside edge. No bobbles. Edging is very important in this serpentine figure.

    Still, the CoP has made the actual sequences ALL look alike. The Sequence is like a School Figure, every skater seems to do the same sequence.

    I see more charlottes in the moves-in- field than I do in the spiral sequence.

    Joe

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    Lovin' the Kween ... Now and Forever
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    Why bother including edges ... this is just skating, after all. :sheesh:

    This is the kind of stuff that makes me wild.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    In the Pre-bad-hip of Kwan, nobody could do a change edge spiral as she did. She never bobbled at the change even in her later years. Why, pray tell me, would I want to see more spirals than that especially in an all alike boring sequence?

    I know, I know, the POINTS. All skaters should get the same points, imo.

    Joe

  11. #11
    Lovin' the Kween ... Now and Forever
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    I hear you, Joe. Her spirals were a thing of beauty. The steadiness and speed ... not to mention the joy on her face (the heart that Dick always refers to)

    It's paint by number now .... who cares if it's nice to watch anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    i would love to see some skaters do a back change of edge spiral...
    Here's another one:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNrCXqQUhFI

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Suzuki did a nice change of edge and she has a nice spiral position but she grasped her skate in a one hand bielman for the back outside edge.

    I would like to see a back inside change edge back outside 'normal' spiral throughout.

    Kind of like a Reverse Kwan.

    Joe

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    Rinkside
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post

    I would like to see a back inside change edge back outside 'normal' spiral throughout.

    Joe
    I hope you are referring to this one. At 3.45, she did a normal back COE spiral before turning it into a charlotte to end the program. Truly genuine.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT9DhdNt3aU

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sindarin View Post
    I hope you are referring to this one. At 3.45, she did a normal back COE spiral before turning it into a charlotte to end the program. Truly genuine.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT9DhdNt3aU
    That whole skate was unbelievably gorgeous. If she could turn that 3z x 2r inro 3z X3r and skate like this, she would be the next Oly Champ. (although, like everyone else, she does prerotate the loop in combo.

    Yes, the change edge spirals are incomparable in any direction. That is called excellent technique.

    I liked her comments about skating for herself and happy that others appreciate it. It's what I've always said, MK draws one into her program; she does not go after the audience or judges with acrobatic extensions - just performs figure skating like no one else.

    Joe

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