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Thread: Is Kimmie Meissner underrated?

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    Question Is Kimmie Meissner underrated?

    The conversation in another thread was going off topic a bit so I am starting a new one. I personally think Kimmie Meissner is quite underrated by many skating fans in NA. I always read so many negative things about her, and downplaying of her abilities. She won the World title with one of the greatest performances by a women since COP came out. She is firmly established as the best U.S women skater (never an easy task) and one of the top 4 in the World battling for titles. She is a very hard worker who wants to improve, is gracious to the media, and is humble despite her World title. So why all the disdain and dismissiveness of her.

    Also for people who say Kimmie Meissner is so completely lacking in artistry, she has won close events due to her impressive PCS too.


    Skate America this year vs the reigning World Champion Miki Ando:

    Kimmie Meissner SP TES- 30.40
    Kimmie Meissner LP TES- 46.71
    Total TES- 77.11
    deductions- 0

    Miki Ando SP TES- 30.10
    Miki Ando LP TES- 49.47
    deductions- 1
    Total TES- 79.57
    remaining with deduction- 78.57

    Kimmie Meissner SP PCS- 28.84
    Kimmie Meissner LP PCS- 57.28
    Total PCS- 86.12

    Miki Ando SP PCS- 27.48
    Miki Ando LP PCS- 55.84
    Total PCS- 83.32

    Kimmie's total TES of 77.11 + total PCS of 86.12 = 163.23
    Miki's total TES of 79.57 + total PCS of 83.32 - 1 = 161.89

    The difference was in Kimmie beating the reigning World Champion Miki Ando when both womens suffered mistakes was the superior overall PCS of Meissner.


    Another example is the U.S Nationals from last year were with Kimmie and main rival Emily Hughes both making mistakes the difference was the superior PCS of Meissner, which allowed her to gain that coveted title.

    Kimmie's TES in the SP- 37.55
    Kimmie's TES in the LP- 59.05
    Kimmie's total TES- 96.60
    deductions- 0

    Hughes's TES in the SP- 34.86
    Hughes's TES in the LP- 64.36
    Hughes's total TES- 99.22
    deduction-1
    Hughes's total TES with deduction- 98.22

    Kimmie's PCS in the SP- 28.14
    Kimmie's PCS in the LP- 56.94
    Kimmie's total PCS- 85.08

    Hughes's PCS in the SP- 27.46
    Hughes's PCS in the LP- 55.18
    Hughes's total PCS- 82.64

    Kimmie's total TES 96.60 + PCS 85.08= 181.68
    Hughes's total TES 99.22 + PCS 82.64 - 1 = 180.86

    Once again Kimmie winning an event over a main competitor due to her superior PCS.

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    Kimmie won Nationals last year because she got credited for her underrotated Triple Toeloops. Her performances were no better than Hughes'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldMedalist View Post
    Kimmie won Nationals last year because she got credited for her underrotated Triple Toeloops. Her performances were no better than Hughes'.
    No she won Nationals since she is a more complete skater then Hughes. If we want to talk about questionable judging Hughes's TES in the long with a fall and no triple-triple was even under the inflated Nationals scoring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slutskayafan21 View Post
    No she won Nationals since she is a more complete skater then Hughes.
    How so?

    Hughes skated with more energy, her Spiral Sequence was better, her Layback was better, and her jumps overall were just as good.

    Quote Originally Posted by slutskayafan21 View Post
    If we want to talk about questionable judging Hughes's TES in the long with a fall and no triple-triple was even under the inflated Nationals scoring.
    Her scores may have been inflated but Kimmie's were just as much, plus the fact of having her 3-3 not downgraded in the SP.

    When you really look at it, there is nothing that Kimmie does great. She's just pretty good at everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldMedalist View Post
    How so?

    Hughes skated with more energy, her Spiral Sequence was better, her Layback was better, and her jumps overall were just as good.



    Her scores may have been inflated but Kimmie's were just as much, plus the fact of having her 3-3 not downgraded in the SP.

    When you really look at it, there is nothing that Kimmie does great. She's just pretty good at everything.
    Hughes is much sloppier, Hughes does not finish her positions as well, Hughes does not interpret the music with as much sophistication or use the phrasing of the music as well, other then the layback Meissner has better spins, Meissner has better jump technique and more secure landings, there are many areas Meissner is superior to Hughes in.

    You say Kimmie does nothing great, but what does Hughes do great? The greatest thing about her is the hype she garners from her last name, there are some areas of her skating that are pretty good, absolutely nothing great. Your responses to this thread are a perfect example of how Kimmie is underappreciated in the U.S, sometimes in favor of other overhyped but less accomplished women, so thanks for helping prove my point.

    The scores dont seem to suggest Hughes was marked less generously then Meissner. The gap in their PCS in front of international judges is in fact normally much more then that for example. So if anything the U.S judges are generous to Hughes to help promote their own self-created "rivalry".

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    Meissner

    Nothing to add technically to the discussion, just VERY STRONG agreement that Meissner is underrated, esp. right here in her home country.

    This young lady has a wonderful work ethic. She and her team have shown an ability to identify those things she needs to improve on (e.g., IMO the "plank" or "airplane" arms are greatly diminished/pretty much nonexistent at this point), she's willing to try new things, she's good under pressure, etc. I enjoy her skating, and found her LP last year very interesting to watch -- even on repeated viewings. She's already turned the success she's had into significant philanthropic endeavors. She may not be the most well-spoken skater in interviews, but she never comes across as arrogant or taking her successes for granted.

    Can't wait to see her programs this year!

    Thanks for bringing the topic to a new thread, Sluteskayafan!

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    IMO, the problem with Meissner is that she does nothing on the ice to make me feel like paying much attention to her. Granted, she's made great strides towards improving that from two years ago, but I saw her primarily as jump, skate, jump, skate, spin, end pose. Why is she underrated? I don't think she is. She's always in the discussion when we talk about worlds predictions, etc.

    I think she took a big step in the right direction last year with her FS. But this year, again, I'm just not blown away by her. Sorry if that bothers some people, but it's true. A select few skaters you just follow. But one actually has to take the effort to WATCH her.

    This has nothing to do with her off-ice persona, which I feel is very refreshing and unique given the environment she comes from.

    Kimmie won Nationals last year because she got credited for her underrotated Triple Toeloops. Her performances were no better than Hughes'.
    True...Nationals has NEVER been that close before in ages. Kim should have had a lower SP score due to the "cheated" 3-3 in the SP. She was underwhelming, I thought (probably due to nerves), but still deserved the overall win.

    Some people complain about the lack of respect for Meissner, but no one is defending Hughes on this very issue. I think she gets criticized MUCH more than Meissner does. In fact, you can see it in this very thread in case you haven't noticed .

    Bottom line: she's a good skater but just doesn't knock the viewer out. There's nothing about her that separates her from the rest or makes her unique out there. Or, put a little differently, one doesn't associate a unique skating style to her.

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    I agree that American fans seem to consistently underrate/diss her. My best guess is she doesn't fit any of the pre-set categories that American fans are comfortable with for female competitors.

    She's too mature to be a jumping bean or baby ballerina,

    She's too slight to be a powerhouse jumper,

    She's too next-door to melt the audience's heart with her artistry,

    In other words ... she's an original, she reminds me a little of a lot of skaters (harding, thomas and kwan especially) but mostly of herself. And hype to the contrary, originals aren't necessarily that popular at the time.

    That said, I'd say she still hasn't completely found her style yet (and if she does, I suspect American fans will dislike her more than ever) ... Would I sound insane if I said I want her to skate in one of Scott Hamilton's manly-man costumes form 84?

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    ^ completely disagree. Much of it might have to do with trying to fill in the (massive) shoes of Kwan and Cohen. Meissner as a skater is nothing like either of them, so it takes some "getting used to". And now up pops Caroline Zhang, who has remarkable potential and who is very likely to get hyped as the next "big skater" for the US. I think the team of Kimmie/Emily/Alyssa (especially the latter two) is being considered as a sort of "transition generation" until the younger girls get old enough to go to worlds. JMT


    And remember, once you hit the top, you open yourself to that much more scrutiny and criticism. Nevermind that Em is actually the one getting the brunt of it IMHO. I mean, NO US ladies medaled at worlds last year, breaking a 10+ year streak I believe, so arguably one can say there is a basis for some of this criticism...In devil's advocate terms, Kim needs to go out there and prove her critics wrong by medaling at worlds again and proving that she wasn't just a "one-hit-wonder" at worlds.
    Last edited by R.D.; 11-10-2007 at 05:31 PM.

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    kimmie is not underrated --if some thinks she is because she's not really an all around skater.
    she underrotates and pre-rotates some of her jumps that doesn't get notice. she still need to grow artistry wise and get cleaner/higher on her jumps. she needs to project better.

    As far as US. she is held in high esteem at the USFSA because she won jr natl and jr novice. She also did a very lousy, sloppy triple axle at natl in 2005 that won her brownie points at the usfsa. She is held up a bit too high. she humps her back to much.-- not much in transitions. kimmie skates sloppy sometimes.
    if they graded natl right last year--emily should have won-even though she skates very heavy and a bit sloppy.

    kimmie is still a threat and they still consider her a hope. she is not considered underrated. they just don't put any pressure on her ,==just like they didn't sasha, sarah, tara, emily.


    At natl last year she was given too much in pc scores just like sasha was in 2006.
    i

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    Kimmie is a solid skater with good training. At the time, she was the best in the world. Right now, I don't think most people would say she is better than Yu Na or Mao. For me, she lacks innate musicality, grace, and presence. She does not have the 'x' factor that makes her stand out. I think her high PC marks reflect her very strong skating skills and so they should. In any case, I do prefer her over Emily Hughes who completely lack sophistication and grace. Emily Hughes is an athlete.

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    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    kimmie is a good littel jumper, and I have to say that last year, esp near the end of the season I really grew to enjoy Flamenca Galcia and her the way she never gave up on a performance, even if it didn't go to well at the start. She has two 3/3's and they have worked wonders for her. But I have to say that this year she has runied two lovely pieces of music with bad chreography and not to good costumes. She has a sweet girl next door smile, but I don't think you are supposed to be grinning ear to ear during the feeling begins.

    She is a skater from the neck down, or even better from the waist down. She arms, hands and face are nowhere near trying to interpret the music. Also, as sombody pointed out, her 3 toe is almost ALWAYS cheated, esp after the lutz. She spin positions can be good, but does not hold them long enough and her spirals just never look pretty.

    A sweet, pleasent girl yes. a world champion figure skater... sorry i don't see it.

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    A sweet, pleasent girl yes. a world champion figure skater... sorry i don't see it.
    Well, to be fair to her, the latter cannot be disputed...she has the hardware already. However, most skaters at her level tend to have a PRESENCE...sorry but she's still working on that one. I'd say the only other lady that comes to mind that lacks a presence is Miki Ando. jmo

    And that brings me to my next point. People criticize Hughes for not being "graceful". I say that's crap- at least she has a presence on the ice. She relates to the audience (my impression from watching her on TV, anyway), something I have not seen Meissner do. I wouldn't call Hughes a WOW skater, though- she also skates to some pretty zzzzzz routines...and Meissner's certainly not anywhere close to that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    I agree that American fans seem to consistently underrate/diss her. My best guess is she doesn't fit any of the pre-set categories that American fans are comfortable with for female competitors.

    She's too mature to be a jumping bean or baby ballerina,

    She's too slight to be a powerhouse jumper,

    She's too next-door to melt the audience's heart with her artistry,

    In other words ... she's an original, she reminds me a little of a lot of skaters (harding, thomas and kwan especially) but mostly of herself. And hype to the contrary, originals aren't necessarily that popular at the time.

    That said, I'd say she still hasn't completely found her style yet (and if she does, I suspect American fans will dislike her more than ever) ... Would I sound insane if I said I want her to skate in one of Scott Hamilton's manly-man costumes form 84?
    I agree with you. Kimmie does not fit into that exact stereotype of typical womens champions. She is kind of hybrid all onto herself. I think more and more we will see people come to appreciate what a talented and special individual she is and embrace her more and more. Right now she is by far the top U.S women skater and hopeful on the international scene, and Americans especialy should be supportive of her, not tearing her down.

    Also would like to remind everyone, while I actually like Kim and Asada quite alot she has something neither have achieved. A World title. Until either of them do that will be a burden on their minds. Kimmie already knows no matter what she will always be a World Champion.

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    Kimmie Meissner is underrated I feel

    I absolutely do NOT think Kimmie is underrated. She won Nationals simply because no one skater better--not because she was spectacular. I agree with those who feel Kimmie lacks charisma, grace and style.

    She is a cute kid, a wonderful role model and an outstanding competitor. She isn't a lovely, graceful and musical skater. For those who love the grace of skating, she isn't our cup of tea.

    Personally, I don't dislike her a bit. She simply does not have the type of style that I prefer.

    Dizzy

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