Who would out perform the other in an exchange of music? | Golden Skate

Who would out perform the other in an exchange of music?

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
For the gentlemen, I would say that Lambiel has the most versatility. I think he could skate to anybody's music and make it his own.
 

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
I too think Lambiel has great versatility - honestly I can't think of many who compare, perhaps Buttle and Sandhu in recent years? And for that reason, I find it a little odd that both his SP and LP are flamenco inspired this year - however, I love them both and just want to see him ok and up to competition standards. Anyway, Lambiel could make 'elevator music' interesting to skate too...

I don't know about Mao and Kim, but I'm thinking they are differently versatile and that Kim appears a bit more connected to the audience/extroverted on ice, while Mao is much more in her own zone so that I would wager on Kim appearing to do better with someone's music although it would be close.
 

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
Lambiel is a much more warm skater to watch than Weir. He definitely pours his heart out to everyone when he is on the ice and he is such a superior dancer with amazingly fluid body movement and musicality. Johnny is not as welcoming because his programs are more internalized IMO. Lambiel has shown far greater versatility in his music and program selections than Weir.

I prefer Yu-Na Kim to Mao and feel that her musical selections have shown more versatility than Asada's, plus she has the longer body line which makes for more aesthetically pleasing pictures on the ice.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I really think Mao improved a whole lot this season and I would say she is more musical than YuNa. That hungarian rhapsody Mao did last year was not memorable. I think for both these ladies, they need to work music choices that they are capable. By the time the Olys come, they both will be so well with beat and rhythm that this will not be a distinguishing issue for either of them.

I think too, that Evan has moved strongly into better musicality, but I also think a change of pace might be in order. Carmen and Tosca too close. Johnny, of course, is innately musical, but he too could chance a change of pace, imo. Both will be vying for Oly gold some day soon and rhythm and downbeat or upbeat should not be an issue.

Joe
 

eleonora.d

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Johnny is one of the most elegant and artistic skaters out there, but he could never perfomr something like Lambiel's flamenco.Stephane is just so passionate , flamenco is all about passion, drama, malincony and he express it on the ice so beautifully. (I just go crazy in the second half of the programm when with the movements of his hands draws the body of a woman).

I finally see Stephane as the man he is, and I don't really see Weir into this kind of music and concept,though I find him very artistic too, but in a different way.
 

Wrlmy

Medalist
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Johnny and Lambiel each has their own niche although Lambiel's might be little more broad. Lambiel has showcased more versatility than Johnny, that's for sure. But I can never imagine him skating to Swan or Otonal and vice versa. They are both able to emote, but in different ways.
Mao and Yuna. Well, Yuna is certainly more known for her ability to emote. Yuna is more tv-friendly skater because she emotes through her facial expression. OTOH, Mao's skating is easier on the eyes because her movements are fluid and bigger than Yuna's. Although they were already briliant skaters when they were juniors, none of their junior programs were memorable IMO. Last year though, Yuna had two great programs whereas Mao had one great program. So it's no surprise that some people say Yuna is a better skater (non-tech-wise) based on last year's performances. But the thing is even the greatest skater needs a right program. So I say give them a few more years before we can decide who can do whose program better. They are too young to have developed thier own styles. Good thing is they clearly don't hesitate to explore.:)
 

fourclover

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Johnny and Lambiel each has their own niche although Lambiel's might be little more broad. Lambiel has showcased more versatility than Johnny, that's for sure. But I can never imagine him skating to Swan or Otonal and vice versa. They are both able to emote, but in different ways.
Mao and Yuna. Well, Yuna is certainly more known for her ability to emote. Yuna is more tv-friendly skater because she emotes through her facial expression. OTOH, Mao's skating is easier on the eyes because her movements are fluid and bigger than Yuna's. Although they were already briliant skaters when they were juniors, none of their junior programs were memorable IMO. Last year though, Yuna had two great programs whereas Mao had one great program. So it's no surprise that some people say Yuna is a better skater (non-tech-wise) based on last year's performances. But the thing is even the greatest skater needs a right program. So I say give them a few more years before we can decide who can do whose program better. They are too young to have developed thier own styles. Good thing is they clearly don't hesitate to explore.:)

To me, Yuna's Junior LP to Papa Can You Hear Me was MORE than memorable; that's what made me take notice of her. She was only fifteen but she expressed herself as if she were at least seventeen or eighteen in that program. I know I'm in the minority but I liked that program waaay better than last year's Lark Ascending; the music is lyrical (just like Mao's current SP) and I loved Yuna's strapless turqoise dress too. I think Yuna should go strapless to show off her lovely shoulders and long neck. One thing I don't like about Miss Saigon is Yuna's dress; it covers her right shoulder completely and somehows subdues her elegant quality.

I like Mao's seamless skating style too but I think Yuna is more musical and artistic. Although everyone seems to be whining that Miss Saigon is such a terrible choice of music and last year's Lark Ascending was such a PERFECT piece of music, I TOTALLY disagree. Lark Ascending was a VERY difficult music to skate to and appear finished because it's the sort of music that's bland and without lyrical up and down quality like Mao's Ladies in Lavender or Czardas or even Yuna's Junior program, Papa Can You Hear Me. Lark Ascending is MEDITATION music or BED TIME music for lulling you to sleep. Honestly, if it weren't Yuna performing to it, I couldn't have finished watching anyone else's performance to it. One fall and the skater will lose the audience in a nano-second UNLESS the skater has some ethereal quality like Yuna who can do many things with her arms, somehow give the audience something else to see besides the jumps. If you think about it, her Tango de Roxanne was the same; the way the music was cut was a bit galling on the ears, definitely, NOT soft and easy on ears on first hearing, but Yuna did a spectacular classy performance to it.

Take Mao.
Last Year:
Her SP to Chopin's Nocturne - such a beautiful music - EASY ON ANYBODY'S EARS - she performed well to it. As long as you don't fall, even Emily Hughes could appear elegant gliding across the ice with this tune.

Her LP to Czardas - folksy Russian-sounding music with LOTS of potential to give character to performance - but what happened? Mao's so-and-so expression left me with a bland taste. This music COULD have been like Yuna's Roxanne - similar ethnic sounding tunes but better, more flair than a classical music, and great opportunity to ENGAGE the audience.

This Year:
SP to Ladies in Lavender ost - such a lyrical hauntingly beautiful music (and EASY ON THE EARS) - Mao's performance is quite extraordinary with lots of lovely motions with the way her back arches and graceful arm movements... BUT I came away feeling SOMETHING was missing, or shall I say, INCOMPLETE, the same bland taste I experienced after watching Mao's performance to Czardas. It's SO weird. With Yu-na's performance, I HEAR the music, and notice how beautifully the MUSIC is expressed by the performer. With Mao's SP, I saw her near flawless buttery movements across the ice but felt as though SHE was being lead by the music, not vice versa. I don't know, it's like Coco Chanel's quote: 'If you dress shabby, they notice your clothes. If you dress impeccably, they notice YOU' kinda thing. (Dressing - skater's performance, Clothes - the skater, YOU - the music).

AND finally, Mao's LP to Chopin's good ole' Fantasie Impromptu (THE KING OF KINGS among easy-on-the-ears music category - I think I've been listening to it since I was four years old AND still not tired of this piece: CHOPIN is a genius!) If you watch her program carefully it's no more artistic than Yuna's Miss Saigon. In fact, I think it's quite, here it goes again... bland with succession of jumps and spins MASKED by very beautiful background piano music. So it APPEARS, Mao's program is more artistic and beautiful and more finished ( unless you splat like four times). But it's actually Chopin that's artistic, beautiful and finished. And why did I feel Mao's program was somewhat... how to say it... repetitious? ... lack of flair? ... I can't put a finger on it. IMO Mao had better music than Yuna BOTH last year AND have this year and therefore had/have advantage in pleasing the crowd and/or the judges in terms of presentation marks. Good for her, good for her team, I think they are smart. Using Chopin is less challenging than Miss Saigon in terms of pleasing the audience.

I think Yuna's camp is BOLDER in trying different types of music from the very lyrical Papa Can You Hear Me to very one dimensional Lark Ascending to Miss Saigon which is definitely an acquired taste with all that jangling angst-filled noise(?). If Yuna is musical and artistic as I think she is, this girl will give LIFE to that program and a new dimension that trenscends the Miss Saigon OST's limitation. And I think she will. :rock:

By the way, I'd like to see Yuna skate to the OST of SOMEWHERE IN TIME. Suuuuch a beautiful piece of music by John Barry (Out of Africa), totally suits Yuna. Or even Dying Young OST.
 
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Vicky458

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 8, 2003
Although I love both Mao and Kim I don't see either one relating to the audience. Actually I don't see that with any of the ladies for quite some time.
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Although I love both Mao and Kim I don't see either one relating to the audience. Actually I don't see that with any of the ladies for quite some time.

Aw., I think Yu-na at her best does relate to the audience. She did at worlds last year, and well you can see it with her exhibition. Even in her short program, she seemed to be relating to the audience.

Mao, I think is more introspective...
 

GoldMedalist

Match Penalty
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Awesome post, fourclover, and I basically agree with everything you said EXCEPT for your thoughts on The Lark Ascending. That music is great and it does have lots of interesting lyrical changes, to me.
 

fourclover

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Awesome post, fourclover, and I basically agree with everything you said EXCEPT for your thoughts on The Lark Ascending. That music is great and it does have lots of interesting lyrical changes, to me.

Thanks. I know I'm in the minority when I say I don't like Lark Ascending - too English for my taste. But still, when I saw Yuna 's persformance I was like, 'Hmm, this performance actually makes that music sound agreeable in my ears and beautiful.' It's the skater's skill that makes her/his music and choreography stand out not vice versa.
 

Wrlmy

Medalist
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
It's the skater's skill that makes her/his music and choreography stand out not vice versa.

Totally. Lyra Angelica is such a boring music IMO and there's no climax nor up and down, but it remains Kwan's signature piece.
 

lilybear

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Why so many people blame the Miss Saigon of Yuna? I really like this program though the music is not as good as the Lark . I think she will perform it better in futhure.
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Johnny v. Lambiel

Mao v. Kim

Joe

Lambiel dosen't just skate to the music. He owns the music and becomes a dancer. During his flamenco number, the footwork and chreography did not look like a skater pretending to be a flamenco dancer, it looked like a flamenco dancer to the point where you forgot he was wearing skates. Johnny is an artistic skater, but IMO has a limited range of inovation and seems to recylce the same moves over and over.

Depend on the music for the ladies. They are both better soft music skaters, so Mao's noturne was magical last year, while tango de roxanne didn't seem like a good fit in my eyes. But OTOH, yu-na shone in miss Sigaon and lark asending. THis year, Mao's SP does not seem like a good fit, but I could not picture yu-na doing well to it either.
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
I cannot imagine Lambiel skating to the pieces that Johnny have been skating to. Especially, the ones for the Olympic season. Both SP and LP music sounded very Johnny. Also the choreo for the Swan was very Johnny.

But I feel that Johnny could skate to the Four Seasons. Yet, the costume must be changed. That was really.......interesting. I don't think that Johnny would ever skate in that costume.

Up until the Olympic season, I was not particularly impressed by Lambiel's presentation. I was always bugged by his arm position, which tended to be kind of low, which is a bit cute looking. But somehow, I came to enjoy his artistic side since the last season. Although his jumps were falling apart last year, he looked so much better. He has been getting sexier, too.

Yu-na and Mao have had only two seasons as senior. So I just cannot tell much. We only have a couple of sets of SPs, LPs, and galas to discuss.

I cannot imagine Yu-na skating to Nuts Cracker. It was very Mao. Mirai may do well as well.
I also cannot imagine Yu-na skating to chopin Nocturne. It was very Mao and a lot of people commented that this piece suits her as if it were written specifically for her.
I cannot imagine Yuna skating to Mao's last season's LP music. Well, it was Gipsy's ;) I didn't think it suited Mao so well, either. Actually, Caroline may do it better than Mao. Especially her spins will go well with that music.
This year's Chopin LP is very Mao and I don't think that anyone would do better than herself. When I watched Shizuka's Olympic SP, I thought it sounding like background music (although shizuka looked so much more beautiful in her LP). But this Chopin LP for Mao is really delicate and nuanced and goes so well with all the light, detailed steps.
Mao's SP music doesn't sound very Mao. It is very beautiful music. But it sounds to me a bit too melancholic and too passionate for Mao. Sasha may do it better. Yet, Mao may become better in connecting the music after overcoming the nerves that she seems to be struggling with. We'll see.
Finally, this year's Chopin gala performance looks perfectly great for her.

I did not enjoy "Papa.... ," the LP program that Yuna skated to as a junior. It seemed to lack both expressions and lines. If Yuna skates to it now, she would do better. I feel that Mai may do well as well.
I cannot imagine Mao skating to roxanne. It was very Yuna. It was very theatrical and a lot of passion, facial expressions, and sexual appeal to the audience. I also think that Daisuke did very well when he skated to that music.
I cannot imagine Mao skating to Miss Saigon. I believe it either Yuna or Kwan type of music.
Yuna's last season's LP was very nuanced, poetic piece. I feel that it was a good fit with Yuna. It was mystique, exotic, and poetic and suited well with Yuna's calm, nuanced atmosphere. It also reminded me of Lu Chen. She would be very beautiful in that music, too.
Finally, I think Mao, young Baiul, and ice dancers would do better in her waltz SP because of their stronger training in dances. Yet Yuna did well in expressing the comical side of the music through her facial expression.

To me, Yu-na's signature performance was roxanne at Worlds and Mao's signature performance was Chopin at Skate America last year.
 
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fourclover

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
I cannot imagine Lambiel skating to the pieces that Johnny have been skating to. Especially, the ones for the Olympic season. Both SP and LP music sounded very Johnny. Also the choreo for the Swan was very Johnny.

But I feel that Johnny could skate to the Four Seasons. Yet, the costume must be changed. That was really.......interesting. I don't think that Johnny would ever skate in that costume.

Up until the Olympic season, I was not particularly impressed by Lambiel's presentation. I was always bugged by his arm position, which tended to be kind of low, which is a bit cute looking. But somehow, I came to enjoy his artistic side since the last season. Although his jumps were falling apart last year, he looked so much better. He has been getting sexier, too.

Yu-na and Mao have had only two seasons as senior. So I just cannot tell much. We only have a couple of sets of SPs, LPs, and galas to discuss.

I cannot imagine Yu-na skating to Nuts Cracker. It was very Mao. Mirai may do well as well.
I also cannot imagine Yu-na skating to chopin Nocturne. It was very Mao and a lot of people commented that this piece suits her as if it were written specifically for her.
I cannot imagine Yuna skating to Mao's last season's LP music. Well, it was Gipsy's ;) I didn't think it suited Mao so well, either. Actually, Caroline may do it better than Mao. Especially her spins will go well with that music.
This year's Chopin LP is very Mao and I don't think that anyone would do better than herself. When I watched Shizuka's Olympic SP, I thought it sounding like background music (although shizuka looked so much more beautiful in her LP). But this Chopin LP for Mao is really delicate and nuanced and goes so well with all the light, detailed steps.
Mao's SP music doesn't sound very Mao. It is very beautiful music. But it sounds to me a bit too melancholic and too passionate for Mao. Sasha may do it better. Yet, Mao may become better in connecting the music after overcoming the nerves that she seems to be struggling with. We'll see.
Finally, this year's Chopin gala performance looks perfectly great for her.

I did not enjoy "Papa.... ," the LP program that Yuna skated to as a junior. It seemed to lack both expressions and lines. If Yuna skates to it now, she would do better. I feel that Mai may do well as well.
I cannot imagine Mao skating to roxanne. It was very Yuna. It was very theatrical and a lot of passion, facial expressions, and sexual appeal to the audience. I also think that Daisuke did very well when he skated to that music.
I cannot imagine Mao skating to Miss Saigon. I believe it either Yuna or Kwan type of music.
Yuna's last season's LP was very nuanced, poetic piece. I feel that it was a good fit with Yuna. It was mystique, exotic, and poetic and suited well with Yuna's calm, nuanced atmosphere. It also reminded me of Lu Chen. She would be very beautiful in that music, too.
Finally, I think Mao, young Baiul, and ice dancers would do better in her waltz SP because of their stronger training in dances. Yet Yuna did well in expressing the comical side of the music through her facial expression.

To me, Yu-na's signature performance was roxanne at Worlds and Mao's signature performance was Chopin at Skate America last year.

I can see Yu-na skating to ANY of Mao's previous and current music (Nutcracker, Chopin's Nocturne AND Fantasie Impromptu, Fantasie for Violin and Orchestra (a big YES), and even Czardas). Yu-na Kim is a CAMELEON, an actress. When I see Mao's skate, I see the SAME type of arm movements, buttery flitting across the ice over and over again, the only change being the BACKGROUND music. It's like instead of Mao skating to suit the music, her team decided, 'Mao only knows how to skate this way, in this style, so hmmm, let's find the music that goes with her.' And that music is Chopin's piano pieces. I wonder if they are going to use another Chopin piece next season. I mean, if that's their strategy aren't they gonna run out of repertoire of music to choose from until the Olympics?

Like you said, Yu-na can skate to Lark Ascending and appear poetic and nuanced like Chen Lu (although I hate both Lark Ascending and Chen Lu's skating) and Yu-na can skate to Miss Saigon and appear Michelle Kwan-esque. I've no doubt Yu-na can skate to Chopin better than Mao with her lithe ballerina-like body - who knows, she might do it in the future. I think you are stereotyping skaters when you say this is Mao and that is Yu-na; it all comes down to her respective EXPRESSIVE skill. I don't see why Mao couldn't have done a better job to her Czardas except for her lack of expressivity. There's nothing "un-Mao" about that music. I think Yu-na would look great skating to OBLIVION TANGO (Fumie Suguri's FS music) - sexy and nuanced at the same time. Future is bright for Yu-na Kim.

Oh, and one last comment about Yu-na's junior long program to Papa, Can You Hear Me. When I see her skating to that piece and when I see her skating to Roxanne's Tango, it's like I'm seeing two different people. Her subtle arm movements are different in all of her skates versus with Mao, it's all the same, just different background music and some different step sequences.
 
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Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I allow skaters to choose their own music together with their coach and choreographer. After seeing the program, I can decide whether or not the music was for that skater but not before. Skaters often amaze me.. But I understand how some fans demand certain criteria for skating to storybook music. I don't.

Johnny, Stephane and YuNa all have a good sense of musicality and for me that is important.. I don't think it is natural for Mao but she does well with the choreographer. JMO.

Joe
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
I think that Mao's interpretations are really great in her gala performances and I wouldn't overlook that. In competitions, she looks really nervous. Esp. this season, I don't think that I have gotten to see her full potential in the presentation department yet.

No, I don't think that Yuna would do better in Chopin pieces.
 
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