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Thread: How will the Nationals results send 3 to Worlds?

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    How will the Nationals results send 3 to Worlds?

    I. We are 99% sure of Kimmie; We do not know the Harvard plans of Emily. Miraei and Caroline if on the podium will not go to Worlds. Some of our regulars are not going to make it, I'm afraid. That leaves Ashley and Rachael.

    Do you agree that regardless of the podium, Ashley and Rachael will go to Worlds as back up for Kimmie.

    II. We know it will be Evan and Johnny but who will be going to Worlds among the Men? Abbott?, Carriere? I kinda doubt Scott or Ryan.

    Joe

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    Both Rachael Flatt and Keauna McLaughlin (of the senior pair of McLaughlin/Brubaker) turned 15 after July 1, 2007, so they, like Mirai Nagasu and Caroline Zhang, are too young to compete at 2008 Worlds.

    The 3 U.S. Sectionals are this coming week, so we will know all the entries for 2008 U.S. Nationals soon. As for the status/competition readiness of the top 3 U.S. pairs from 2007 Nationals... well, we'll have to wait and see...
    Last edited by Sylvia; 11-11-2007 at 10:08 PM.

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    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I. We are 99% sure of Kimmie; We do not know the Harvard plans of Emily. Miraei and Caroline if on the podium will not go to Worlds. Some of our regulars are not going to make it, I'm afraid. That leaves Ashley and Rachael.

    Do you agree that regardless of the podium, Ashley and Rachael will go to Worlds as back up for Kimmie.

    II. We know it will be Evan and Johnny but who will be going to Worlds among the Men? Abbott?, Carriere? I kinda doubt Scott or Ryan.

    Joe
    I think that we can be 100% sure about Kimmie. The USFSA will take Meissner if she was on her death bed. Without Meissner, our chances of getting 3 spots are next to Nil. And you know the USFSA wants 3 spots in LA.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    I think that we can be 100% sure about Kimmie. The USFSA will take Meissner if she was on her death bed. Without Meissner, our chances of getting 3 spots are next to Nil. And you know the USFSA wants 3 spots in LA.
    Totally agree, but which 3? Kimmie wll be one and Emily could be another, if she decides to go to Worlds. If Emily decides not to go, then there will be two needed. The two posible choices from below, imo are:

    Alyssa
    Bebe
    Rachael
    Ashley

    I think also that Chrissie Hughes could be considered in her first Senior competition.

    And as
    Sylvia says the Sectionals are coming up and who knows who will get to Nats and make a splash!

    In addition to Weir and Lysacek the bronze could be:

    Bradley
    Smith
    Abbott,
    Carriere,
    Kannalakan
    Pennington

    And from the Sectionals, hopefully, Rohene

    All this is very important for the strategy of the USFS to get enough back up points for Kimmie to keep 3 ladies for 2009. The Men's field does not have an easy podium contender so if one makes a 4th place, we can still get 3 for 2009 with the proper backup.

    After all, it is Los Angeles and everyone will be there. Can you imagine, a warm venue for Worlds (although Tokyo was mild and enjoyable)?

    What do you think would be the best skaters for the US Nats leading to the best Teams for 2008 Worlds?

    Joe

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    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Rachael is not old enough to go to worlds.

    I'm not sure about the men, but well I think that with Evan and Johnny were are likely to do enough to get 3 spots for the men...


    I think for the women the best possible team would be Meissner, Wagner, and Hughes.

    Wagner is younger than Alissa and Bebe, but she's already showed herself to be more stable, and I think with the fact that Emily's skate at last year's worlds "barely did enough," having Ashley would be a major relief!

    My fear with Ashley is she's not getting the hype than Caroline or Mirai has gotten. Even though I think Ashley skated really well at Skate Canada (better than Caroline's two showings). It would be nice to see the USFSA attempt to promote Ashley even a little bit because well, you know what, that will help come time for worlds. Don't get me wrong, Ashley definetly needs some more polish...But well her jumps are much more secure than Caroline's or Mirai's.

    I know people love Alissa and Bebe.. But I think it would be a real shame if next year we don't have 3 spots especially considering the fact that we have so many talented youngsters coming up.

    I don't think Chrissy Hughes will get a spot on the world team because she quite frankly doesn't have the difficulty. Although I'd frankly rather her than Alissa too because once again, at least she lands the jumps she actually has..

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    Custom Title McWicked's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Rachel cant go to Worlds?!?!?! ... Noooooooooooooooo!!! (in a Luke Skywalker findin out his dad's darth Vader kind of way)

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Rachael turned 15 in July and still too young to qualify for Worlds. Rules has it to be 1. But she will be at US Nats.

    Joe

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    Joesitz, Austin Kanallakan is staying junior this season, along with Brandon Mroz and Adam Rippon. The Junior Men's event in St. Paul is shaping up to be a "can't miss" competition!

    Derrick Delmore, Parker Pennington, Shaun Rogers, Braden Overett, Nicholas LaRoche, Tommy Steenberg, Eliot Halverson, and Rohene Ward are some of the senior guys who have to compete at one of the 3 Sectionals this week in order to qualify for Nationals. Rogers and Ward have successfully landed quad toe combinations in competition this season.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 11-12-2007 at 03:25 PM.

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    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    thanks for the insight, Sylvia...


    and Joe - I'd LOVE to see Wagner make the world team!

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I really don't see much in the way of "strategy" available for USFS. Whoever skates the best at Nationals will also be the best shot we have at Worlds.

    I don't see any advantage to USFS to try to prop up one skater and hold back another.

    If worst come to worst, and the U.S. qualifies only two skaters for Los Angeles Worlds -- well, that's sport. That will give an extra place for some other deserving skater from another country.

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    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I agree, normally teh strongest the US has makes it onto the team (flukes happen, but for the most part...)... seems most of the US skaters do their best at nationals...

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Sylvia - Can't wait for the Sectionals. They will be as mind boggling as the Nationals, I think.

    Joe

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    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I really don't see much in the way of "strategy" available for USFS. Whoever skates the best at Nationals will also be the best shot we have at Worlds.

    I don't see any advantage to USFS to try to prop up one skater and hold back another.

    If worst come to worst, and the U.S. qualifies only two skaters for Los Angeles Worlds -- well, that's sport. That will give an extra place for some other deserving skater from another country.
    I don't know. If Alissa has a great skate at Nationals and Ashley has a great skate at Nationals, Alissa will probably be better. But consistently the odds of Alissa having a great skate at Nationals and at Worlds. Just isn't there..

    Besides, rules wise I don't the USFSA necessarily has to choose top 3.. Can't they choose based on international results. If that's the case.. Ashley could still get in.

    I would hate to see Caroline or Mirai for example miss out on Worlds because Alissa cannot land her jumps when the pressure is on. Especially when we have Ashley who can.

    Alissa seems like a lovely skater but given what I've seen I don't want her anywhere near the world team...
    Last edited by bekalc; 11-12-2007 at 08:10 PM.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    If Ashley wants to go to Worlds, let her skate for it like everyone else. Same with Alissa.

    I can't really buy an argument that says, Alissa skated well at Nationals but we are afraid she won't skate well at worlds. Ashley skated badly at nationals but we hope she will do better at worlds. Therefore we'll send Ashley.

    The national federations don't HAVE to do anything. But USFS has always prided itself as being all out in the open and up and up when it comes to selecting the world team and making assignments for the Grand Prix and other international events. First, second and third go to Worlds. No politicking or shady deals behind closed doors.

    There have been exceptions in exceptional cases, like sending MK to have a cup of coffee in Torino and putting Emily on a later flight.

    And maybe USFS is just trying to be holier than thou vis-a-vis all those crooked federations out there.

    Still, I have always appreciated the effort at trying to maintain at least a pretense of fair play.

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    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Mathman If Ashley wants to go to Worlds, let her skate for it like everyone else. Same with Alissa.

    I can't really buy an argument that says, Alissa skated well at Nationals but we are afraid she won't skate well at worlds. Ashley skated badly at nationals but we hope she will do better at worlds. Therefore we'll send Ashley
    That's not my argument at all. My argument is that if both girls skate well at Nationals. Then ,I would still send Ashley to worlds over Alissa. Because Ashley is consistent and Alissa isn't.

    I'm not saying that if Ashley fell 3 times and Alissa didn't, I'd still send Ashley (of course not) What I'm saying is that if Ashley lands 7 triples, and Alissa lands 6 triples. Yes, I think that Alissa should place higher than Ashley in that competition. But I'm still sending Ashley to worlds because I recognize that Ashley is the more reliable skater, and well for the sake of US Ladies skating as a whole, the best possible team should go.

    Why shouldn't the USFSA consider consistency? Why is that necessarily wrong Mathman. How Alissa does at worlds, doesn't just affect Alissa. It could also potentially affect the futures of several other skaters. Especially since we have so many young talented youngsters who aren't eligible this year but will be eligible next year. I'm willing to bet at least one age ineligible will end up on the Nationals podium, and it's sad enough that they won't be able to go to worlds this year.

    I feel that the very least thing the USFSA owes those youngsters is to choose a team that's most likely to earn 3 spots for next year. And I think that when choosing the team, you have to think about consistency. There is nothing unfair about that. Alissa has earned her inconsistent reputation. Don't get me wrong she seems like a sweet girl and she's a lovely skater. But I don't want to see Mirai/Caroline/ Rachael futures in Alissa's hands.

    And honestly its better for the USFSA to say we will consider consistency than it is to lowball someone because they don't want them on the team. Remember poor Mark Mitchell, that was hardly "fair and upright."

    And as for likelhood, it is far more likely that Ashley will got to worlds and land 5-7 triples than its likely that Alissa will do so. Ashley's jumping technique is just much more sound.
    Last edited by bekalc; 11-13-2007 at 12:05 AM.

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