Corrupt Russian Dance Panel?

RDiva · Nov 26, 2007

oxade21 said:
Well, this is different post, before you said that all they do is flail and lift
if you want to make a real valid comaprisons, you have to look at current skaters competing, not the dusted cases. I would make similar cases for B/A and Del/Shoes, that you just made for Dom/Shabs and F/M. The only current skater, that have better edges and blade technique are V/M, IMO.

As per the dance itself, it has been explained million times, I am not going to do it again. There is a very good poster and much more professional and elaborate discussion of this season's dances over at fsuniverse. One of the dance skaters member of the board does exceptional analysis of every program this year.

Do you really believe that Del/Sh don't have better edges and blade technique then Dom/S?????????? :eek:

oxade21 · Nov 26, 2007

RDiva said:
Do you really believe that Del/Sh don't have better edges and blade technique then Dom/S??????????

One partner has, another not so much. That's what disussion about.

chuckm · Nov 26, 2007

How can a team where one partner is clearly less skilled than the other be so outrageously overmarked? Sorry, but DomShabs are a paper tiger. If they earn the World Championship and OGM, and the results come by virtue of carefully engineered judging panels, it's going to further damage the credibility of ice dancing as a sport.

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 26, 2007

oxade21 said:
One partner has, another not so much. That's what disussion about.

And does the technical assistant catch these 'not so good edges'?

chuckm · Nov 26, 2007

Joesitz said:
And does the technical assistant catch these 'not so good edges'?

There are no jumps in ice dance, hence no edge calls or deductions. The tech panel in ice dance decides element levels, extended lifts, costume deductions, illegal elements, etc. As dance teams can work on lift timing and avoid costume deductions (illegal elements are rare) and most of the top teams do elements with the highest levels, the decision on who wins rests almost entirely with the judges, using GOE and PCS. Edging should affect both GOE and Skating Skating skills in the PCS, but that's up to the individual judges.

So when you have judging panels with 2-4 Russian-friendly judges, which team do YOU think will get the higher GOE and the highest PCS scores?

oxade21 · Nov 26, 2007

Joesitz said:
And does the technical assistant catch these 'not so good edges'?

It is difficult to score actually, they can only reflect that in PCS. Some choose to do so, some ignore. And that's what I believe infuriates some of the conspiracy theorists around here.
The fact is that all the teams have something to pick on. So the fact that some countires are represented by from Svoiet Union judges DOES give edge to Russian skaters, but the difference was diminshed lately with COP, because now tech specialist have more power even if half of the pnael is Russian, if the skater makes major mistake they will not recover from it with PCS, but if it is close call then they will can get ahead with PCS.

Big Deal · Nov 27, 2007

The whole disgusting story is reminds me, how they built Navka/Kostomarov up and buried Denkova /Stavisky for years!!!

Belbin/Agosto has to be thanksful because of this part of the Story. Their silver in 2005 at the World just was used to say to the whole World that Navka/ Kostomarov is so good, the only team which can be closed to them is not allowed to go to the Olympic because of Belbin's citizenship issue.

And the judges was shocked, because they could go to the Olympic, they gave them the silver (undeservedly) and can you imagine the bronze of the Ukrainean boring couple ahead of Denk/Stav, Drob/Vanagas etc.

The even bigger shock, when at the Wordlchamp. Belbin/agosto was the favourite, because Navka/Kost. retired. But a WorldChamp. like this 2????
And only THAN Denkova /Stav. got the points they deserved since 2003!!!!!

Now, the history will repeating, if someone doesn't ask the judges to be honest!!
8,5 and 8,6 for THESE Russians??? Give me a break!

I would like to see Virtue/Moir, Davis/White and Kokhlova /Nov. on the podium.
I'm watching Ice dance since 1972, every year. Please, dont kill this sport!!!!!!!!

(I'm Hungarian, so not Russian, not American, not Canadian etc.....)

oxade21 · Nov 27, 2007

bigdeal said:
The whole disgusting story is reminds me, how they built Navka/Kostomarov up and buried Denkova /Stavisky for years!!!

Belbin/Agosto has to be thanksful because of this part of the Story. Their silver in 2005 at the World just was used to say to the whole World that Navka/ Kostomarov is so good, the only team which can be closed to them is not allowed to go to the Olympic because of Belbin's citizenship issue.

And the judges was shocked, because they could go to the Olympic, they gave them the silver (undeservedly) and can you imagine the bronze of the Ukrainean boring couple ahead of Denk/Stav, Drob/Vanagas etc.

The even bigger shock, when at the Wordlchamp. Belbin/agosto was the favourite, because Navka/Kost. retired. But a WorldChamp. like this 2????
And only THAN Denkova /Stav. got the points they deserved since 2003!!!!!

Now, the history will repeating, if someone doesn't ask the judges to be honest!!
8,5 and 8,6 for THESE Russians??? Give me a break!

I would like to see Virtue/Moir, Davis/White and Kokhlova /Nov. on the podium.
I'm watching Ice dance since 1972, every year. Please, dont kill this sport!!!!!!!!

(I'm Hungarian, so not Russian, not American, not Canadian etc.....)

So you have been watching Dance since 1972 and only now noticing the wuzrobbing? Where you have been when the corrupt Russians took every single gold since T/D retired???

Big Deal · Nov 27, 2007

I've been there crying. Especially when Linnichuk/Karponosov got the OGM with an almost fall ahead of the Hungarians in 1980.
But I think, the biggest robbery was on 1994, when Torvill/Dean got bronze. Still makes me angry.

Anyway: Anissina-Peizerat officialy are not Russians. ( Don't forget how close they've been to loose the OGM for a 5:4 votes to the Russian Lobacheva/Averbukh).

I realy think that this sport doesn't need " great Champions" created only by the judges like Linnichuk/Karponosov, Bestemianova/Bukin, Navka/ Kostomarov or Fusar-Poli/Margaglio. Even Grischuk/Platov is a question mark in my book.

We need : Pakhomova/Gorshkov, Moiseeva/Minenkov, Torvill/Dean, Anissina/Peizerat, Krylova/Ovsjannikov, Klimova/Ponomarenko, (maybe Virtue/Moir, Davis/White, Kokhlova/Novitski, Carron/Jost, Capellini/Lanotte in the future).

The future seems to be bright because so many talented couple is around, but if they all will be killed again, it will end this sport.

oxade21 · Nov 27, 2007

bigdeal said:
I've been there crying. Especially when Linnichuk/Karponosov got the OGM with an almost fall ahead of the Hungarians in 1980.
But I think, the biggest robbery was on 1994, when Torvill/Dean got bronze. Still makes me angry.

Anyway: Anissina-Peizerat officialy are not Russians. ( Don't forget how close they've been to loose the OGM for a 5:4 votes to the Russian Lobacheva/Averbukh).

I realy think that this sport doesn't need " great Champions" created only by the judges like Linnichuk/Karponosov, Bestemianova/Bukin, Navka/ Kostomarov or Fusar-Poli/Margaglio. Even Grischuk/Platov is a question mark in my book.

We need : Pakhomova/Gorshkov, Moiseeva/Minenkov, Torvill/Dean, Anissina/Peizerat, Krylova/Ovsjannikov, Klimova/Ponomarenko, (maybe Virtue/Moir, Davis/White, Kokhlova/Novitski, Carron/Jost, Capellini/Lanotte in the future).

The future seems to be bright because so many talented couple is around, but if they all will be killed again, it will end this sport.

Well it survived all these 20 years and it will survive more. Besides,quality North American dance skaters have just emerged (Thanks again to Russian coaches!!!) and the real battle is yet to come. It is too early to cry foul.

Corrupt Russian Dance Panel?

RDiva

oxade21

Match Penalty

chuckm

Joesitz (RIP)

chuckm

oxade21

Match Penalty

Big Deal

oxade21

Match Penalty

Big Deal

oxade21

Match Penalty

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