COR ladies SP

slutskayafan21 · Nov 23, 2007

chuckm said:
At least she doesn't have the situation where Mira made the GPF and she didn't. Jeff Buttle may find himself out of the GPF while Patrick Chan is in. Jeff is 15 points out of the silver medal position and the likelihood of his making up that deficit in the FS is not good at all. He will be lucky to move up to bronze, but that won't give him a ticket to the GPF.

Incidentally, Mira got a higher score at TEB than she did at SA, but it didn't translate to a higher placement. She was fifth in both competitions, and her PCS scores at TEB were not noticeably higher than her SA scores.

5.25 4.90 5.15 5.05 5.30 SA SP
5.20 4.85 5.35 5.30 5.20 TEB SP

5.75 5.40 5.55 5.75 5.50 SA FS
5.85 5.35 5.60 5.55 5.60 TEB FS

I am sure that Skate Canada is aware that Mira is still pretty far from being a medal threat internationally. Whatever Joannie's shortcomings, she still gets a lot more respect from the ISU judges than Mira does.

Jeff wont catch up to a top 2 finish and wont be in the GP final almost for certain while Chan will. Whether Lambiel skates great or not I cant imagine he will be nearly as bad as COC, and Weir will probably atleast skate pretty well whether he skates as cleanly as COC or not. He is 15 points behind, his strength is PCS and he still has a disadvantage to Lambiel in PCS, and he no longer has an advantage over Weir in PCS, even if the mistakes were similar. He is inferior in jumps to Lambiel (difficulty) and Weir (quality) to begin with, before whatever mistakes they all make. He would need a 150+ LP to have any chance to make a top 2 finish, possibly even higher then that, and no way I could imagine that from him right now.

Chan is looking stronger and stronger. The CFSA I think will care very much he made the GP final and Buttle did not, regardless that he got a lucky with Joubert's withdrawal from Eric Bompard. Either way he was much more impressive then Buttle on the GP circuit thus far, he looks to be getting better while Jeff is getting worse. Jeff is atleast 2 years older then all the top men in the World today now as well, while Chan is atleast 3 years younger then Oda, who is probably the next youngest of those you consider the top group of guys. I am not saying Chan will win Canadians since the CFSA will decide that beforehand or anything, but they probably also can sense by now Buttle isnt getting back to a Worlds podium and the best case scenario is to push our future at this point, building for Vancouver.

skatingfan04 · Nov 23, 2007

I agree, Chan making the final with buttle likely out (still crossing my fingers though

) must be hard to take as the Canadian champ. As for Rochette, she's a beautiful skater with consistamtly better FS that SP's, so I haven't given up hope of her making the final yet. She's beaten all of the skaters ranked ahread of her before, so I don't think that moving up to second would be impossible. It's a shame that she isn't more consistant, becuase she would be a real force to be reackoned with if she was. As for her getting beaten by Mira, I doubt it. Leungs jumps, although they may seem clean, sre often underrotated, and her artistic ability is nowhere near Rochette's, so I don't think she should be really worried.

feraina · Nov 23, 2007

skatingfan04 said:
As for her getting beaten by Mira, I doubt it.

But perhaps it would be better for Joannie's motivation (to skate clean programs, to go for the 3-3's), if she did have stronger competition? :biggrin:

ks777 · Nov 23, 2007

Lumi said:
Well, I still think Kiira has more polish, but maybe the judges are just sending a message that it is better to do lutz and loop in SP than flip and flutz...

I don't know how Kiira is more polished than the 3 time world medalist. Fumie didn't medal based on her jumps.

bekalc · Nov 23, 2007

feraina said:
But perhaps it would be better for Joannie's motivation (to skate clean programs, to go for the 3-3's), if she did have stronger competition?

Honestly, if I were Joannie, I would begin by just putting my 3/3 in the long program, and getting consistent with it there, and then moving to the short..

Yu-na Kim did her triple flip/triple toe in her longs, during her last junior season and was consistent, and I'm willing to bet it helped her confidence immensly when it came to doing it the short program...

slutskayafan21 · Nov 23, 2007

ks777 said:
I don't know how Kiira is more polished than the 3 time world medalist. Fumie didn't medal based on her jumps.

The jumps were a part of her world medals. Fumie medalled at the worlds she did based on her strong overall skating, a combination of good jumps, good spins, polished skating, good musicality, strong basics. She did not medal on her skating being exceptional in any area, just pretty good at everything. She also benefited from her consistency as a skater and was able to capatilize on others mistakes at the 2002 and 2003 Worlds imparticular, and the depleted field of the 2006 Worlds.

artsciboy · Nov 23, 2007

Yan Liu

Why did Yan Liu score so low? She only missed the lutz combination. Did she get a downgrade for either the 3loop or the 2axel?

Bennett · Nov 23, 2007

emma said:
I have a question though - not to sound nit-picky, but can better knee stretch and turn-out be learned or is that genetic/morphological? I know Kwan didn't have a good knee turn out in her layback, but somehow, I notice Yu-Na's somewhat awkward leg positions in more than just the lay-back and was just wondering if that is something one can improve.

I think you can improve it. Not only through ballet lessons, but also as a part of skating lessons. A coach would teach the knee stretch and turn-out almost as soon as a student starts taking lessons.

Edit to Add: Although genetic may somewhat matter, I think it important to always pay attention to it and keep working on it so that it eventually comes unconsciously.

Besides, because her legs are very skinny and straight, she actually has a physical advantage in terms of looks. The lack of stretch or turn out does not stand out too severely because of the skinny, straight legs. People who are less skinny may not look as stretched out or turned-out as they actually do.

chuckm · Nov 23, 2007

artsciboy said:
Why did Yan Liu score so low? She only missed the lutz combination. Did she get a downgrade for either the 3loop or the 2axel?

Liu is not an expressive skater, and she does not relate to her music. Therefore, her PCS scores were very low, the second lowest after Petushkova (but Petushkova landed all her jumps).

mizu_iro · Nov 23, 2007

chuckm said:
Liu is not an expressive skater, and she does not relate to her music. Therefore, her PCS scores were very low, the second lowest after Petushkova (but Petushkova landed all her jumps).

She's also really, really slow...

fumie_fumie · Nov 23, 2007

Yan Liu

She was once a good jumper though.

bubbleyum · Nov 24, 2007

a little worried for yuna. she was slower and seemed off her music... wonder if they purposefully took out the running steps after her spin (right after the spiral sequence) or if she had to skip it because she was behind? and her 3-lutz was shaky, popped her axel to a single... maybe she will recover for the long tomorrow. i sure hope so!

lambiel making his quad kinda made up for the above though, heh. can't wait for tomorrow!!

Lumi · Nov 24, 2007

With more polish I meant that Kiira holds her moves keeps long and never really lets details goes away; she keeps her body and facial expression through the program.

Fumie has good presentation, but sometimes she lets especially her posture go. I find that she has more "off choreograpgy" moments.

And it is ot like Fumie was technicaly light years ahead of Kiira, she I more consistent.

tiara · Nov 24, 2007

I love Yu-Na's skating and this sp is lovely. It's light, and appears effortless and she really has lovely facial expressions and other ways of connecting with the audience that just make me feel so pleased to watch her.

Yes, Yuna has lovely facial expressions. But I do not find her a good waltz type of skater. Waltz needs lightness in the skating. Light skating requires a lot of smooth transitions and jump landings using the soft knees. Yuna does not have those soft knees. She just represents power, speed, and good jumping techniques. Her last season's SP "Roxanne" is much more suited to her skating.

I have a question though - not to sound nit-picky, but can better knee stretch and turn-out be learned or is that genetic/morphological? I know Kwan didn't have a good knee turn out in her layback, but somehow, I notice Yu-Na's somewhat awkward leg positions in more than just the lay-back and was just wondering if that is something one can improve.

Are you talking about a free leg's knee stretch during the layback spin in particular? Yuna's free leg position in her layback is as ugly as Onda's. BTW, I know that almost all Japanese women's free leg positons are not so good either. Is it because Japanese coaches can not teach proper free leg positions or Asians simply can not take those difficult positions(upper body bend backward almost parallel to the ice and stretch free leg(not bend at the knee) and raise that straight free leg relatively high(without hand support like Bielman's) physically? However, the same Asians like Zhang and Nagasu, who are trained in the US from young age can do those beautiful, Peggy Fleming and Sarah Hughes like, classical laybacks.

It seems that Mao is now correcting her bad free leg position in her layback. I saw good progress in her performance at Skate Canada. Dick Button does not like those ugly free leg positions. I have the same taste in women's skating as Dick's. That is why both like Mao more than Yuna. :rofl:

flying camel · Nov 24, 2007

tiara said:
Yes, Yuna has lovely facial expressions. But I do not find her a good waltz type of skater. Waltz needs lightness in the skating. Light skating requires a lot of smooth transitions and jump landings using the soft knees. Yuna does not have those soft knees. She just represents power, speed, and good jumping techniques. Her last season's SP "Roxanne" is much more suited to her skating.

Are you talking about a free leg's knee stretch during the layback spin in particular? Yuna's free leg position in her layback is as ugly as Onda's. BTW, I know that almost all Japanese women's free leg positons are not so good either. Is it because Japanese coaches can not teach proper free leg positions or Asians simply can not take those difficult positions(upper body bend backward almost parallel to the ice and stretch free leg(not bend at the knee) and raise that straight free leg relatively high(without hand support like Bielman's) physically? However, the same Asians like Zhang and Nagasu, who are trained in the US from young age can do those beautiful, Peggy Fleming and Sarah Hughes like, classical laybacks.

I have to agree with a lot that you have said. Didn't Kristie Yamaguchi skate to that same music that Yu - Na is using in her SP? I think Kristie used it for her SP in 92. I remember it being so light and beautiful. Yu - Na should watch a tape of Kristie. Not that she should be just like Kristie but just to get an idea of how to skate a waltz. She just does not look comfortable with that skate.

I think in Japan they put emphasis on the jumps. The US ladies try to have the overall package which includes jumps, spins, spiral and great laybacks. When most of the Japanese girls move to the US then they ty to become the overall skater. That is the way I see it.

mizu_iro · Nov 24, 2007

flying camel said:
I have to agree with a lot that you have said. Didn't Kristie Yamaguchi skate to that same music that Yu - Na is using in her SP? I think Kristie used it for her SP in 92. I remember it being so light and beautiful. Yu - Na should watch a tape of Kristie. Not that she should be just like Kristie but just to get an idea of how to skate a waltz. She just does not look comfortable with that skate.

I think in Japan they put emphasis on the jumps. The US ladies try to have the overall package which includes jumps, spins, spiral and great laybacks. When most of the Japanese girls move to the US then they ty to become the overall skater. That is the way I see it.

Kristi skated to the Blue Danube. The two examples of Die Fledermaus that I remember are Jenny Kirk and Gordeeva/Grinkov, and I do think that both of those examples were more "waltz"-y than Yu-Na's SP. Kristi's SP was also very nice, maybe my favorite program from her.

I disagree with your comment that Japanese skaters care just about the jumps. Yuka Sato's skating was certainly not just about jumping, and Mao and Yu-Na are both more complete skaters than Kimmie (who also has an ugly layback) and Emily (very heavy skating!). Caroline and Mirai may develop into something more, but at the moment Caroline's speed and presentation leave something to be desired and Mirai is having UR issues.

Kristi also didn't have a very pretty layback, and her spins were rather slow...

COR ladies SP

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty

skatingfan04

feraina

ks777

bekalc

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty

artsciboy

Bennett

chuckm

mizu_iro

fumie_fumie

bubbleyum

Lumi

tiara

Match Penalty

flying camel

mizu_iro

Similar threads

Connect with us