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Thread: The Leg Wrap

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    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    The Leg Wrap

    I am a bit surprised that Nakano doesn't get minus GOEs for her leg wrap even though people seem to be much disturbed by it. Don't the rules say anything about the free leg position?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    I am a bit surprised that Yukari doesn't get minus GOEs for her wrap even though people seem to be much disturbed by it. Don't the rules say anything about the free leg position?
    It's not important what skaters do in the air, but what they do on the ice. Edges are far more important than a leg wrap!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gio View Post
    It's not important what skaters do in the air, but what they do on the ice. Edges are far more important than a leg wrap!!!!
    I understand what you say. But I am not associating her wrap with discussions about take off edges.

    The point is that both the TV commentators and the average figure skating fans seem to be much bothered by the wrap. It looks quite an unusual technique. Midori Ito was said to have the wrap, but it was not as distracting as hers. Edges may be more important than air positions, but still air positions are not unimportant. Skating coaches teach what the proper air position should be. It just appears kind of counter-intuitive that she does not get a penalty for the air position that everyone seems to disagree with.

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    I think it may be reflected in the GOE. Yukari never gets positive GOE on those jumps. The wrap also makes her jumps prone to underrotation and downgrading. I guess the judges think that as long as she's completing the jump without a touchdown/two foot/etc., she should get the base value or close to it.

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    Great Teacher Oscilla
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    To say the truth, I'm not bothered at all by the leg wrap. I don't think Yukari's wrap is worse than Midori's, their legs are wrapped just the same, only Midori was a more powerful skater and she rotated her jumps faster.

    IIRC, one of the requirements for +GOE is difficult air position. Since it is certainly more difficult to land fully rotated jump with a leg wrap, perhaps Yukari should get some +GoE, as long as the jump was fully rotated and landed clearly..?

    I don't remember seeing anything in ISU docs about leg wrap being considered a bad technique (if there's actually something about it, I stand corrected). If Yukari modeled her jumping technique after great Midori (which is possible, considering Yukari admires her and also attempted 3A) and there was in fact no written requirement for tight legs position in air I think it's a bit unfair to bash her for it now, when it would be difficult for her to correct the leg wrap.

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    Every phase of the jump must be evaluated for GOE, and the phase in the air is not exempt.

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    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oscilla View Post
    To say the truth, I'm not bothered at all by the leg wrap.
    Good to hear that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscilla View Post
    IIRC, one of the requirements for +GOE is difficult air position. Since it is certainly more difficult to land fully rotated jump with a leg wrap, perhaps Yukari should get some +GoE, as long as the jump was fully rotated and landed clearly..?
    That's a neat interpretation. :chorus:

    But it may help her keeping from two-footing a jump.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscilla View Post
    I don't remember seeing anything in ISU docs about leg wrap being considered a bad technique (if there's actually something about it, I stand corrected). If Yukari modeled her jumping technique after great Midori (which is possible, considering Yukari admires her and also attempted 3A) and there was in fact no written requirement for tight legs position in air I think it's a bit unfair to bash her for it now, when it would be difficult for her to correct the leg wrap.
    No, I am not bashing her at all. I also acknowledge that it would be difficult for Yukari as an individual to correct basic jump techniques at her age. But it just looks counter-intuitive that she---or let's say, a skater whose jumps get a lot of complaints from the commentators---does not get minus GOE for that.

    Young skaters practice the air position countless times both on the ground and on the ice. I don't think it unimportant.

    But yes, it is likely that the wrap is keeping her from getting plus GOE.

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    Lambiel is the best!!
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    To me it looks like Yukari took the term "free leg" a little too seriously.
    I just don't understand how one develops such an unattractive habit.
    Shouldn't somebody have taught her to correct it by now???

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    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    Yukari's first coach was none other than Mashiko Yamada--Midori's coach. She taught both of them the wrap.

    Yukari's wrap makes her jumps (that she wraps) look ugly, but that is nothing compared to:

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=vR05b8SBtTs
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=badsBSkyL0o

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue dog View Post
    Yukari's first coach was none other than Mashiko Yamada--Midori's coach. She taught both of them the wrap.

    Yukari's wrap makes her jumps (that she wraps) look ugly, but that is nothing compared to:

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=vR05b8SBtTs
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=badsBSkyL0o
    Thanks for the vids.
    The wrap seems to be the ONLY THING Button and Fleming want to talk about!

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    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue dog View Post
    Yukari's first coach was none other than Mashiko Yamada--Midori's coach. She taught both of them the wrap.
    I don't know if she encouraged her to do so because there seem to be other students who don't wrap. But you can perhaps say that she didn't insist to fix it.

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    I watched the link to Erin Pearl demonstrating a wrap, but I think I need a clearer definition of a wrap, please.

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    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by passion View Post
    I watched the link to Erin Pearl demonstrating a wrap, but I think I need a clearer definition of a wrap, please.
    The wrap is the positioning of the free leg. The skater here demonstrates well where the free leg should be when spinning in the air:

    http://scottcudmore.com/db1/00007/sc.../SESATampa.jpg

    His free leg is right next to the landing (right, in this case for this skater) leg. What Yukari, Erin, and Midori used to do is wrap their free leg by placing the free foot higher than it should be. In Yukari's case, it's almost up at the knee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mizu_iro View Post
    I think it may be reflected in the GOE. Yukari never gets positive GOE on those jumps. The wrap also makes her jumps prone to underrotation and downgrading. I guess the judges think that as long as she's completing the jump without a touchdown/two foot/etc., she should get the base value or close to it.
    It is interesting that she does not wrap on every jump. When she does wrap, she doesn't get positive GOE.

    Personally, I find it very distracting, especially since she does everything else so well.

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    wrap

    it seems to me that Yukari leg wrap is getting worse. by that -she only used to do it for a few jumps, now is seems she does it for all of the jumps.
    It is distracting for me because Yurkari is a beautiful skater to watch.
    She has nice flow over their ice but when she wraps it breaks the flow of her skating . it jolts me a bit with the flow and musicality of her skating.

    Under the new system they get points on whether they do all the turns of the jump and takeoff and landing edges-not on how it looks. Because they are getting deducted on the wrap. I think for that reason more and more skaters are wrapping their free leg. Some a little and some a lot.
    Like Miki Ando did it at world last year when she did her doubles. I noticed, fumie, Caroline Z, Emily and a few others have done it more. None as noticeable as Yukari has, but they all have.

    i remember under (figures) they had a harder time getting to the top tier if they had a leg wrap, than the skaters who didn't.
    For me personnally, I think it is easier to do the triple, double jump because they don't have to do it perfect (correctly).

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