Outlook on Pairs

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 28, 2007

Teams heading to Torino

Zhang/Zhang
Savchenko/Szolkowy
Dube/Davison
Pang/Tong

The rest is a hodgpodge of allowing certain teams to skate a 3rd non scoring event. S/S and D/D will probably be on the podium and prevent two high scoring placements to the rest of the field.

Kawaguchi/Smirnov and Mukhortova/Trankov may well hold their own with 22 and 20 points respectively. Much depends on those who would have made the Finals if this dumb allowance of a 3rd event would stay buried as planned:

Given the teams of Dube/Davison and Savchenko/Szolkowy will place either first or second, the rest of the field will be fighting for the bronze medal only:

So the Field Fighting for 3rd Place at NHK will be:
McLaughlin/Bruebaker brings total 'if' to 24 and enough for the Finals.or a total 'if' of 4th place to a total of 22 pts; or if 5th at total of 20 pts. The last two could be linked to a tie with K/S and M/T respectively

Langois/Hay brings total to 20 for a tie with M/T
______________________________________________________

.I do not agree with this type of running a competition. If a skater or team withdraws from an event, the place should be left vacant. In the case of Pairs,.if there is a loss of interest among skaters, then so be it. Anyway, this giving the elite skater such a huge advantage of dumping on 2nd tier skaters is not going to get more young skaters interested in Pairs.

Joe

SailorGalaxia518 · Nov 28, 2007

Mclaughlin and Brubaker, if they medal they will clinch a spot in the GPF with Kawaguchi and Smirnov getting the final spot

chuckm · Nov 28, 2007

McLaughlin/Brubaker have only to finish 5th to secure a spot in the GPF:

These teams are in:
30 Zhang/Zhang
28 Savchenko/Szolkowy
28 Pang/Tong
28 Dube/Davison

Next:
22 Kawaguchi/Smirnov - 2 bronze medals
20 Mukhortova/Trankov - 1 bronze and a 4th place

McLaughlin/Brubaker have 13 points and a silver medal.
If they finish 4th at NHK they will have 22 points, ahead of K/S with 2 bronze medals.
If they finish 5th at NHK they will have 20 points, ahead of M/T with bronze.

So M/B have to beat Li/Xu and Piatkowska/Khromin to make the GPF.

oleada · Nov 28, 2007

I think Kawaguchi/Smirnov and McLaughlin/Brubaker will be the final two teams.

Joesitz said:
.I do not agree with this type of running a competition. If a skater or team withdraws from an event, the place should be left vacant. In the case of Pairs,.if there is a loss of interest among skaters, then so be it. Anyway, this giving the elite skater such a huge advantage of dumping on 2nd tier skaters is not going to get more young skaters interested in Pairs.

Joe

I disagree with this - While I do think that teams with one or no assignments should get the spot first if there's an opening, I don't think spots should be left vacant. It's not fair to the organizers. The top tier teams do have an option to reject a third assignment, and if they do, they don't get asked again (IIRC).

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 29, 2007

oleada said:
I
I disagree with this - While I do think that teams with one or no assignments should get the spot first if there's an opening, I don't think spots should be left vacant. It's not fair to the organizers. The top tier teams do have an option to reject a third assignment, and if they do, they don't get asked again (IIRC).

That's not my point. My point is the Rule that there would be no more than 2 Gps per couple yet in order to please the organizers (I presume you know this) the ISU should break the rule and seek out teams who have already had 2 GPs and top tier ones at that. Let's give the one GP couple another GP.

Joe

oleada · Nov 29, 2007

We'll have to agree to disagree I guess.

If Volosozhar and Morozov finish 2nd, and M/B finish fifth, then it's going to come down to the scores.

SailorGalaxia518 · Nov 29, 2007

oleada said:
We'll have to agree to disagree I guess.

If Volosozhar and Morozov finish 2nd, and M/B finish fifth, then it's going to come down to the scores.

Yeah it will come down to a three-way tiebreaker

chuckm · Nov 29, 2007

If V/M finish 2nd and M/B fifth, Kawaguchi/Smirnov are in with 22 points, and it will come down to a tiebreaker between V/M and MB for the final spot (Mukhortova/Trankov would be out of it because they have only a bronze medal).

But Dube/Davison are less than 2 points out of second, and I think they will come back with a good FS. D/D scored over 111 points in the FS in both previous events, while V/M scored less than 99 at TEB.

oleada · Nov 29, 2007

I'm just looking at the possibilities. However, if they skate well like they did at Worlds, V&M would more than likely be ahead of Dube and Davison. They have a much higher technical content.

chuckm · Nov 29, 2007

Worlds was in MARCH. This is November. Based on how they performed at TEB, V/M are not in the same competitive shape they were in last March, and D/D are performing better now than they were last season (they missed the entire GP season last year due to injury).

oleada · Nov 29, 2007

D&D have done well, and improved a lot, but they didn't skate a clean LP at either SC or SA. V&M are (well, mostly him really) very inconsistent. They could skate like in Paris, or like they did in Tokyo (where they didn't do well at all in the SP, but got the second highest TES in the LP). If they skate well, which they have the potential to, then they have a good change of beating D&D due to their strong technical content.

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 29, 2007

oleada said:
D&D have done well, and improved a lot, but they didn't skate a clean LP at either SC or SA. V&M are (well, mostly him really) very inconsistent. They could skate like in Paris, or like they did in Tokyo (where they didn't do well at all in the SP, but got the second highest TES in the LP). If they skate well, which they have the potential to, then they have a good change of beating D&D due to their strong technical content.

I remember seeing Hongbo Zhao in Dortmund injure his ankle on a jump in the SP and they placed second. Does that mean he didn't skate a clean LP?

In the case of D/D, you are predicting that they will not skate clean and will not do well in the placeings. Am I correct? Not sure what you are driving at?

Tell me about this incredible Technical of V/M in Pairs. I watched the SP, it all looked well and by the numbers. Little energy and no speed. There was no rapport between them.

Joe

oleada · Nov 29, 2007

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that both teams are good and have their strengths, and that it will be interesting to who comes out on top if they both can skate clean. For the record, I like both teams about equally. I think both will be on the podium. But if they both skate at reasonably the same level, I'd go with V&M being ahead because of the tech.

On the technical side, V&M have a really gorgeous triple twist - D&D don't (and I think to be podium placers at worlds they are going to need one). In the jumps, they have a triple toe - triple toe sequence compared to D&D's double axel - double axel. Dube's struggled with her triple salchow, and Morozov with his triple toe, so I think both teams are about equal there. Honestly, I didn't notice the speed of either team. Presentation and connection, I would give D&D the edge.

Tatiana is an absolutely gorgeous skater, though - beautiful positions in the lifts and death spirals. I think she's one of the best female pair skaters in the World right now.

I'm not putting either team down, that was not my original intention, it was to talk about GP points. I am just comparing them.

SailorGalaxia518 · Nov 29, 2007

oleada said:
That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that both teams are good and have their strengths, and that it will be interesting to who comes out on top if they both can skate clean. For the record, I like both teams about equally. I think both will be on the podium. But if they both skate at reasonably the same level, I'd go with V&M being ahead because of the tech.

On the technical side, V&M have a really gorgeous triple twist - D&D don't (and I think to be podium placers at worlds they are going to need one). In the jumps, they have a triple toe - triple toe sequence compared to D&D's double axel - double axel. Dube's struggled with her triple salchow, and Morozov with his triple toe, so I think both teams are about equal there. Honestly, I didn't notice the speed of either team. Presentation and connection, I would give D&D the edge.

Tatiana is an absolutely gorgeous skater, though - beautiful positions in the lifts and death spirals. I think she's one of the best female pair skaters in the World right now.

I'm not putting either team down, that was not my original intention, it was to talk about GP points. I am just comparing them.

Stanislav Morozov is a tank. I'm sorry but this guy scares me :laugh:

oleada · Nov 29, 2007

She so deserves a better partner! But if someone's throwing me around, he seems strong enough to catch me. :chorus:

hockeyfan228 · Nov 30, 2007

Joesitz said:
That's not my point. My point is the Rule that there would be no more than 2 Gps per couple yet in order to please the organizers (I presume you know this) the ISU should break the rule and seek out teams who have already had 2 GPs and top tier ones at that. Let's give the one GP couple another GP.

Joe

The Rule is that during the initial selection process, there can be only one of each group of seeds, but that for Pairs, additional seeds can be added. The ISU didn't break any rules; they decided to treat Pairs differently, just like they allow Pairs to skate Junior and Senior GP, unlike every other discipline.

Outlook on Pairs

Joesitz (RIP)

SailorGalaxia518

chuckm

oleada

Joesitz (RIP)

oleada

SailorGalaxia518

chuckm

oleada

chuckm

oleada

Joesitz (RIP)

oleada

SailorGalaxia518

oleada

hockeyfan228

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