Free Dance

Senor Dumas · Dec 11, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by daisies
"Hi! I am new, but I wanted to make a comment about V/M's FD. I am very familiar with the movie "Les Parapluies de Cherbourg" and noticed that V/M used the last lines of the movie at the very beginning of their music. It was quite jarring to me, in that, if they are telling a story, they are telling it backwards.

That is all. Glad to get that off my chest. "

I am just wondering if that actually takes anything away from their skating.

Now the music is really bad and I can't see how anyone can sit through that movie more than once, but they actually make the music quality irrelevent. I mean it starts, you think "Crap, not les Parapluies!!", then it's over and you wonder how that could have lasted 4 minutes. Did it last 4 minutes?

I mean I can speak French and I could not care less what they are babling about. The skating takes center stage. These kids could probably skate to experimental Yoko Ono or old school Pantera and make it a winner. OK, maybe they would just place top 3, but you get my point...

all that · Dec 11, 2007

Senor Dumas said:
Quote:
These kids could probably skate to experimental Yoko Ono or old school Pantera and make it a winner.

Now that's something I'd want to see!

I agree with you though -- the music of Umbrellas is like nails on chalkboard for me, but they actually make me tolerate it.

daisies · Dec 11, 2007

"Les Parapluies" is one of my all-time favorite movies and also happens to be my current FS program music. (I'm a former kid/current adult skater and first skated to it in 1999, so I'm a little bummed it seems to be used more and more these days; I hadn't heard it much at all back then.) Don't worry, I won't take it personally that you don't like it!

Whether or not it takes away from their skating is purely subjective. It did for me, because I was so thrown off by their complete lack of regard for the movie's storyline. And IMO that is why music selection and maintaining a piece of music's integrity -- very hard when edited -- is really important. I'll never forget in the '90s a skater in a local competition combined "Schindler's List" with "Jesus Christ, Superstar." I couldn't even watch her skating; the music combination was so appalling. But that's one example -- extreme and, unfortunately, true -- of how music can distract from the actual skating.

all that · Dec 11, 2007

daisies said:
Don't worry, I won't take it personally that you don't like it!

Thanks, because I didn't mean for it to be an insult or anything.

I think it's the vocals that bother me more than the actual music -- I'm not too sure why though.

Whether or not it takes away from their skating is purely subjective. It did for me, because I was so thrown off by their complete lack of regard for the movie's storyline. And IMO that is why music selection and maintaining a piece of music's integrity -- very hard when edited -- is really important. I'll never forget in the '90s a skater in a local competition combined "Schindler's List" with "Jesus Christ, Superstar." I couldn't even watch her skating; the music combination was so appalling. But that's one example -- extreme and, unfortunately, true -- of how music can distract from the actual skating.

[/QUOTE]

I agree. If you listen to the lyrics, V&M's program makes no sense at all. Not only is the beginning strange, the ending pose is strange as well. Are they supposed to be happy? Is he supposed to be going somewhere, but changes his mind? What's she looking up at the sky for? I'm left terribly confused.

If they had just left the lyrics out, I think it would have been better. I've seen appalling music combinations when it is clear that the music editor did not know the language of the pieces he was using -- but I'd think someone in Team Shpilband knows French!

hockeyfan228 · Dec 12, 2007

all that said:
but I'd think someone in Team Shpilband knows French!

At least Ms. Belbin does. When Weir and Belbin were great friends, Weir wrote about speaking French with her on the COI tour.

cassieandcheetah · Dec 12, 2007

hockeyfan228 said:
At least Ms. Belbin does. When Weir and Belbin were great friends, Weir wrote about speaking French with her on the COI tour.

Why is it in the past tense? now that she's dating Lysacek do you think she can't be friends with Johnny anymore? No I'm not accusing you of making false speculations or anything! I've actually wondered about this myself!

backoutsideedge · Dec 12, 2007

Why does V&M's program/music have to be literal to the movie?

Joesitz (RIP) · Dec 12, 2007

backoutsideedge said:
Why does V&M's program/music have to be literal to the movie?

It doesn't, imo. The music if really felt should take the skater to where he is at. If someone is skating to Tosca, if he doesn't show Tosca as a lady in love (Act l) a lady fighting for her man (act II) and foiled in Act III. How can anyone get all that accomplished in 4 minutes?

Let the music take you and not necessarily to Rome in the time of Napoleon.

Joe

all that · Dec 12, 2007

backoutsideedge said:
Why does V&M's program/music have to be literal to the movie?

I don't think it has to be literal to the movie -- but if you are using lyrics, you don't want a person who can understand the lyrics to be confused.

daisies · Dec 12, 2007

all that said:
I don't think it has to be literal to the movie -- but if you are using lyrics, you don't want a person who can understand the lyrics to be confused.

Exactly. If it was just music -- no lyrics -- it makes no difference whatsoever; the skating should tell the story.

But with lyrics -- especially these lyrics -- it's hard to follow if the lyrics are telling one story and the skating is telling another.

For anyone who doesn't know the movie's storyline, it's essentially this: 16-year-old girl works in mom's umbrella store, falls in love with 20-year-old mechanic across the street. Girl keeps relationship secret from mom. Mechanic finds out he's been drafted. Girl freaks out because mechanic will be gone for two years and she's soooooooooo in love. They have sex before he leaves. He's gone, she finds out she's pregnant. Mom finds out. Mom is also having financial troubles and might lose umbrella store. Mom finds rich man for girl to marry so that a) baby has father, because who knows when mechanic is coming home and whether or not he will still be in love with girl and b) mom won't have financial troubles anymore. Mom finds older man, who is immediately smitten with girl. Girl's not sure what she wants to do -- she's only a teen. Eventually mom convinces her to marry old guy. She does. Mechanic comes home to find girl gone, is despondent. He ends up marrying longtime family friend and opening his own gas station. Years later, he's happily married with a kid, and girl pulls into gas station -- not knowing it's mechanic's gas station. He comes out to pump gas and sees it's her. They have the small talk you hear at the beginning of V&M's program, which is basically how are you, fine how are you ... then she asks if he wants to meet his child, because he never got to back in the day. He says nope, I'm good, thanks anyway. Bittersweet end of movie.

OK so ... V&M's program starts out with this small talk -- two people NOT in love anymore. Mechanic very happy with his own life, doesn't need to relive the past; girl actually NOT happy with her own life, but hey, she's rich. Then the music cuts to ... "Don't ever leave me ... if you leave, I'll die .... Je t'aime, JE T'AAIIIIMMMEEE!!!"

I think you can see the paradox.

cassieandcheetah · Dec 12, 2007

daisies said:
Exactly. If it was just music -- no lyrics -- it makes no difference whatsoever; the skating should tell the story.

But with lyrics -- especially these lyrics -- it's hard to follow if the lyrics are telling one story and the skating is telling another.

For anyone who doesn't know the movie's storyline, it's essentially this: 16-year-old girl works in mom's umbrella store, falls in love with 20-year-old mechanic across the street. Girl keeps relationship secret from mom. Mechanic finds out he's been drafted. Girl freaks out because mechanic will be gone for two years and she's soooooooooo in love. They have sex before he leaves. He's gone, she finds out she's pregnant. Mom finds out. Mom is also having financial troubles and might lose umbrella store. Mom finds rich man for girl to marry so that a) baby has father, because who knows when mechanic is coming home and whether or not he will still be in love with girl and b) mom won't have financial troubles anymore. Mom finds older man, who is immediately smitten with girl. Girl's not sure what she wants to do -- she's only a teen. Eventually mom convinces her to marry old guy. She does. Mechanic comes home to find girl gone, is despondent. He ends up marrying longtime family friend and opening his own gas station. Years later, he's happily married with a kid, and girl pulls into gas station -- not knowing it's mechanic's gas station. He comes out to pump gas and sees it's her. They have the small talk you hear at the beginning of V&M's program, which is basically how are you, fine how are you ... then she asks if he wants to meet his child, because he never got to back in the day. He says nope, I'm good, thanks anyway. Bittersweet end of movie.

OK so ... V&M's program starts out with this small talk -- two people NOT in love anymore. Mechanic very happy with his own life, doesn't need to relive the past; girl actually NOT happy with her own life, but hey, she's rich. Then the music cuts to ... "Don't ever leave me ... if you leave, I'll die .... Je t'aime, JE T'AAIIIIMMMEEE!!!"

I think you can see the paradox.

Yes, V/M skate their program wonderfully, but in regards to the movie' storyline I don't think they were quite in character. They just looked so happy and in love throughout the whole program, even though obviously, as Daisies points out above, it's a story about falling in and out of love. Schoenfelder and Delobel does a much better job doing justice to their movie's storyline (the Piano) in my opinion...But hey, but I have to say that technically, V/M are better skaters than D/S, but I do have a soft spot for D/S (do forgive me All That!

)

all that · Dec 12, 2007

cassieandcheetah said:
Yes, V/M skate their program wonderfully, but in regards to the movie' storyline I don't think they were quite in character. They just looked so happy and in love throughout the whole movie, even though obviously, as Daisies points out above, it's a story about falling in and out of love. Schoenfelder and Delobel does a much better job doing justice to their movie's storyline (the Piano) in my opinion...But hey, but I have to say that technically, V/M are better skaters than D/S, but I do have a soft spot for D/S (do forgive me All That! )

There's nothing to forgive. I like D/S myself.

As for V/M, I don't think they know the story themselves -- or rather, they've been told that they are only acting out part of the story (the very beginning, right before he leaves for the military). I've seen Igor splice incongruous music cuts before, so perhaps he just doesn't care that the lyrics don't match. Since I wish they had gone with no lyrics anyway, this makes me :scratch:

cassieandcheetah · Dec 12, 2007

all that said:
There's nothing to forgive. I like D/S myself.

I know, that's just in reference to my misunderatnding last time.

speaking of Igor's incongruous music cuts, I've been religiously avoidng the subject of Davis/White's FD music because it hurts me so much to think about it every time. For a team of their talent, it's so sad to see what they've been given to work with. I hope the judges come to look at if favorably in time, but at least to my ears it sounds so hodgy podgy without making much sense....

Senor Dumas · Dec 14, 2007

Wow.

I just finished reading the whole thread. A lot of things that have been said in here are actually increasing Global Warming.

Based on the results of this competition, 2 things:

1- It was most likely the last time V/M finished 2nd to the French team.

and

2-The 2 strongest team this year are ranked 3rd and 4rth in the GP standings.

cassieandcheetah · Dec 14, 2007

Senor Dumas said:
Wow.

I just finished reading the whole thread. A lot of things that have been said in here are actually increasing Global Warming.

Based on the results of this competition, 2 things:

1- It was most likely the last time V/M finished 2nd to the French team.

and

2-The 2 strongest team this year are ranked 3rd and 4rth in the GP standings.

Well, I guess you haven't read up on the GPF results yet. i believe V/M are only fourth after the OD....

Senor Dumas · Dec 14, 2007

I obvioulsy did not. You are right about that.

I'm pretty sure it was going to be on TV tomorow and I wanted to see it not knowing the results.

So thanks a million.

cassieandcheetah · Dec 14, 2007

Senor Dumas said:
I obvioulsy did not. You are right about that.

I'm pretty sure it was going to be on TV tomorow and I wanted to see it not knowing the results.

So thanks a million.

Oops...sorry. I forgot about the spoilers rule...shame.

I usually get curious and look up the results first thing when I get up in the morning. Thought you would do the same.

Free Dance

Senor Dumas

all that

daisies

all that

hockeyfan228

cassieandcheetah

backoutsideedge

Joesitz (RIP)

all that

daisies

cassieandcheetah

all that

cassieandcheetah

Senor Dumas

cassieandcheetah

Senor Dumas

cassieandcheetah

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