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Thread: Ladies' Grand Prix Final Points Breakdown

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    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Ladies' Grand Prix Final Points Breakdown

    Going to Final:
    1st by points - Yu-Na Kim: 180.68 + 197.20 = 377.88
    2nd by points - Mao Asada: 177.66 + 179.80 = 357.46
    5th by points - Kimmie Meissner: 163.23 + 158.74 = 321.97
    3rd by points - Yukari Nakano: 169.43 + 172.77 = 342.20
    8th by points - Carolina Kostner: 143.86 + 164.69 = 308.55
    7th by points - Caroline Zhang: 153.35 + 156.34 = 309.69

    Alternates:
    6th by points - Sarah Meier: 147.15 + 163.17 = 310.32
    9th by points - Miki Ando: 161.89 + 145.81 = 307.70
    4th by points - Joannie Rochette: 168.18 + 169.91 = 338.09

    How the Grand Prix Final SHOULD have played out:
    1. Yu-Na Kim
    2. Mao Asada
    3. Yukari Nakano
    4. Joannie Rochette (won't make it)
    5. Kimmie Meissner
    6. Sarah Meier (won't make it)

    Hopefully, by the time the World Championships come around and if Joannie and Sarah maintain solid, consistent training and competition progression, they will have their day under the sun too, but right now it is a sad day for their fans and respective skating federations. Rochette has proven that she is competitive for a World Bronze medal if she continues her steady path and makes small improvements. It's not fair IMO that the GP Finalists are still selected using the old method from the 6.0 Rule Book. It's just not right . . . oh well, what can you do? Just another instance of unfair controversy in this sport.
    Last edited by museksk8r; 12-01-2007 at 09:57 AM.

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    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    without giving an NHK spoiler, are these the offical GPF skaters?? If Caroline is going, you just made my weekend!

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    Apparently the 1000 times it has been said are not enough.

    You CANNOT compare points between events. Different callers, different judges, different competition, different ice.

    I can't see how the GPF qualifications for the year are either unfair or controversial...

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    Quote Originally Posted by dlarry1 View Post
    Apparently the 1000 times it has been said are not enough.

    You CANNOT compare points between events. Different callers, different judges, different competition, different ice.

    I can't see how the GPF qualifications for the year are either unfair or controversial...
    Exactly. If Caroline Zhang did not get dinged at SA, she could easily score above 110+.

    I'm not impressed with Sarah Meir at all. How in the hell could a program with only 3 clean triple score over 100 points?

  5. #5
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlarry1 View Post
    Apparently the 1000 times it has been said are not enough.

    You CANNOT compare points between events. Different callers, different judges, different competition, different ice.

    I can't see how the GPF qualifications for the year are either unfair or controversial...
    You're actually going to try and convince me that Kimmie, Caroline, and Carolina out-skated Joannie in the Grand Prix Series this season? You HAVE to be joking . . . the skating speaks for itself, regardless of the callers, the judges, the ice, whatever. There's no question Joannie out-jumped them all and her presentation, maturity, and style are very much appreciated in my eyes. The weakest part of her skating are her spins, but she was still better than those 3 IMO.
    Last edited by museksk8r; 12-01-2007 at 11:50 AM.

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    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by netnuts View Post
    Exactly. If Caroline Zhang did not get dinged at SA, she could easily score above 110+.
    She under-rotated many of her jumps. How can you fairly say that they shouldn't have been downgraded?, and this is coming from a Caroline fan.

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    Tanguera feraina's Avatar
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    OMG, Caroline's going to GPF! Oh, I'm so happy for her! Awesome job, Caroline! That makes four years in a row that the new Junior World champion qualified for next year's GPF (Miki Ando, Mao Asada, and Yu-na Kim). Go Caroline!

    Callers were clearly MUCH more strict at SA than anywhere else, and as the season went on, the callers got more and more lenient culminating in NHK with the highest relatives scores (in terms of actual skating content). I would definitely interpret the absolute scores with a grain of salt -- while Joannie Rochette definitely skated really well, it's really questionable that Sarah Meier with her two poor LP skates should have a point total greater than Caroline.

    Anyway, come World Championship, they will all skate on the same ice, with the same technical and judging panels, and then we'll see how they all stack up against each other! (Well, except for poor Caroline, who won't get to go no matter what... She's the second after Mao to qualify for the GPF and not be age-eligible for the WC, right?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by feraina View Post
    That makes four years in a row that the new Junior World champion qualified for next year's GPF (Miki Ando, Mao Asada, and Yu-na Kim).
    That's a very impressive streak. I don't know how long the GPF has been around, but I doubt there's been another series of talent like that to have an immediate impact upon moving from juniors to the senior grand prix.

    And kudos to Joannie for having better skates this year. If she's as amazing as you say, she has plenty of time to prepare and dazzle us at Worlds.

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    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by netnuts View Post
    Exactly. If Caroline Zhang did not get dinged at SA, she could easily score above 110+.

    I'm not impressed with Sarah Meir at all. How in the hell could a program with only 3 clean triple score over 100 points?
    So, That doesn't change the fact that Zhang did not score well in China.... Rochette scored over 110 in the free at both of her events. Are you going to argue that Caroline was underscored in China?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    So, That doesn't change the fact that Zhang did not score well in China.... Rochette scored over 110 in the free at both of her events. Are you going to argue that Caroline was underscored in China?
    Netnuts was comparing Zhang with Meier, not Rochette. I think he would agree that Rochette skated very well in the LP's. But the SP is there for a reason, Joannie placed 5th in the SP in both events. If you want to relegate the SP to irrelevance, or eliminate it altogether, then that's another discussion. I guess the rationale of the SP is that you have to demonstrate that you have the competence to do one combo, one triple out of footwork, one axel, two spins, one spiral seq, one footwork seq -- such that you cannot make up your relative weaknesses in one area in another. Joannie for whatever reasons hasn't been able to deliver the SP. Under the old 6.0 system, she'd be even worse off than she is now!

    To be fair, Zhang should only have two triples downgraded at most in the SA LP: 3T and 3S. That still makes it a 5-triple plus two 2A program, with no falls or pops. At CoC, she also delivered a 5-triple plus two 2A program, with two falls (3F and 3Z) instead of two UR's. With both programs she scored under 100. She also delivered two beautiful SP's including 3F/3T's (the downgrade at SA was questionable, especially as they gave her credit for the 3T but not the 3F, bizzare!).

    Sarah Meier, on the other hand, won NHK LP with 104 points but only three clean triples (and 1 2A). Her skates at TEB were even worse (not quite two clean triples in the LP). And Sarah also suffers from lack of speed and power, so she doesn't even really trump Caroline on that front (at least not to the obvious extent as Yu-na, Mao, Kimmie, or even Miki).

    I am REALLY glad that this year's GPF qualification did NOT have to rely on point totals for tie-breakers, but was entirely determined by placements alone. I think there are SERIOUS problems in the inconsistency of CoP scoring across events. They need to either make it more consistent quickly, or change the rules for GPF qualification and GP qualification (for the next year) to depend less on absolute scores.
    Last edited by feraina; 12-01-2007 at 01:53 PM.

  11. #11
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Caroline was underscored in China?

    Netnuts was comparing Zhang with Meier, not Rochette. I think he would agree that Rochette skated very well in the LP's. But the SP is there for a reason, Joannie placed 5th in the SP in both events. If you want to relegate the SP to irrelevance, or eliminate it altogether, then that's another discussion. I guess the rationale of the SP is that you have to demonstrate that you have the competence to do one combo, one triple out of footwork, one axel, two spins, one spiral seq, one footwork seq -- such that you cannot make up your relative weaknesses in one area in another. Joannie for whatever reasons hasn't been able to deliver the SP. Under the old 6.0 system, she'd be even worse off than she is now!
    Joannie's short program at Skate Canada really wasn't that bad. It was shaky, but she didn't fall or pop a jump. She was just lowballed PCS wise.

    And well yes, the short program is there for a reason, but total score wise, Joannie scored higher than both Caroline and Meier, by a long mile... And it's the total scores that matter... Even if you add those three triples to Caroline's score, she's still not going to end up with a higher point total (overall) than Joannie.

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    Let's not forget that the callers have been hard on Joannie too and she has also not done a clean LP and yet has scored very well!
    Actually Joannie not going to the GPF is probably a good thing! The one year she went and won the bronze she put too much pressure on herself to do well at worlds.
    Now she can rest at home and practise more and get those last couple of jump passes in with out errors. If she does her score can only go up and she could easlily beat 120 in the long.

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    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sackie View Post
    Let's not forget that the callers have been hard on Joannie too and she has also not done a clean LP and yet has scored very well!
    Actually Joannie not going to the GPF is probably a good thing! The one year she went and won the bronze she put too much pressure on herself to do well at worlds.
    Now she can rest at home and practise more and get those last couple of jump passes in with out errors. If she does her score can only go up and she could easlily beat 120 in the long.
    Yep, I think she has a great shot at a world medal this year.. If she can stand up to the pressure...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    Yep, I think she has a great shot at a world medal this year.. If she can stand up to the pressure...
    Yes she does!! She also had a great shot in 2006, maybe not in 2007 though. I hope she comes up with a better layout than two sequences.

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    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrlmy View Post
    Yes she does!! She also had a great shot in 2006, maybe not in 2007 though. I hope she comes up with a better layout than two sequences.
    I think that Rochette would help herself out a lot, by ditching the 3/3 in the short, and putting it in her long program. I don't know why she doesn't attempt it in her long.. I would think going for that triple/triple in the long would be less stressful, and once she started hitting it, she'd probably be able to develop confidence with it.

    But yeah, the judges were totally willing to give Joannie the world championship in 2006, and she blew it.

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