My husband was watching the NHK Trophy on t.v.with me today. Out of the blue he says, "Is skating declining?" Pretending to not understand what his point was I asked why he said that. "Because everyone is falling all over the place." (The women in the LP). To the average viewer, skating appears to be declining because of all the falls. Because this system gives points even when you fall, it has become a splat fest. Wake up ISU or you will lose even more viewers (notice the emptier stands anyone?).
Is Skating Declining?
- Thread starter kyla2
- Start date
Interesting. But I don't think that anybody chose to risk falling after calculating possible points they could get out of a fallen triple versus a clean double. I think that it just happned. That particular event had a number of ladies who are known for their inconsistency (as well as their beauty:agree
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- Joined
- Nov 20, 2007
The falls are occuring because everyone has to load up their programs with difficulty in order to gain points, even if it means taking risks.
The stands are empty because the events aren't advertised well enough and the tickets are overpriced........at least in the US.
The stands are empty because the events aren't advertised well enough and the tickets are overpriced........at least in the US.
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2006
I also think it has alot to with a few other things besides what has already been mentioned
1. Lack of big names...people just don't know the skaters that are out there right now...wel average people...not us super skating fans. Skaters are just not around long enough for people to get to know them, like Witt, Kwan, Kerrigan, Yamaguchi were.
2. No television....the shows are on NBC but it's mostly non eligible skaters...so still they don't get to know the skaters that are out there competiting right now. In addition, not everyone will watch ESPN to see the Grand Prix to get to know some of these skaters.
3. Lets face it...there's nothing in the news, bad or good, about skating to bring it to the forefront.
1. Lack of big names...people just don't know the skaters that are out there right now...wel average people...not us super skating fans. Skaters are just not around long enough for people to get to know them, like Witt, Kwan, Kerrigan, Yamaguchi were.
2. No television....the shows are on NBC but it's mostly non eligible skaters...so still they don't get to know the skaters that are out there competiting right now. In addition, not everyone will watch ESPN to see the Grand Prix to get to know some of these skaters.
3. Lets face it...there's nothing in the news, bad or good, about skating to bring it to the forefront.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
The new scoring system promotes trying hard things even if you fall and stumble out of them. The old scoring system you got no credit at all for a jump that wasnt clean. I liked that more. The new scoring system also promotes skaters trying alot of the same elements, so all the programs look the same. The spins and footwork have to have all of these changes of edge, some of the best in the past did not have these a surplus of changes of edge and were held out more or flowed better. The ISU also does a poor job of promoting events and the skaters.
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2004
For me, it is declining in my interest.
I admit, I am more a pro-skating fan than a competitive fan. But, in past years I was one to sit glued to ANY skating on tv, whether it be serious competition, the less serious competitions (pro-ams, etc) or a show.
I really dislike the new scoring system, it really has taken a lot of the freedom of movement and artistry and showmanship out of skating...Even skaters who seemed to have a real handle on making a competitive performance very aesthetically pleasing for me with artistry and musicality are having a hard time doing it with the new scoring system. At least in MY eye.
It is also hard getting used to the 'new' skaters as the ones I 'grew up with' at the beginning of my skating fandomness retire. I think that is partly because they either drop out of the scene while still compeitive or they have no place to go in pro-ranks after they have had their fill of competiting.
I miss things like battle of the sexes, world pro, pro-am competitions, ice wars, etc.
These skaters combined with musical artists shows that seem to be trying to take the place of the pro competitions just don't quite cut it for me. It isn't bad seeing them live as you can concentrate on the skaters the whole time...but watching on tv, it just isn't like watching pure skating.
I admit, I am more a pro-skating fan than a competitive fan. But, in past years I was one to sit glued to ANY skating on tv, whether it be serious competition, the less serious competitions (pro-ams, etc) or a show.
I really dislike the new scoring system, it really has taken a lot of the freedom of movement and artistry and showmanship out of skating...Even skaters who seemed to have a real handle on making a competitive performance very aesthetically pleasing for me with artistry and musicality are having a hard time doing it with the new scoring system. At least in MY eye.
It is also hard getting used to the 'new' skaters as the ones I 'grew up with' at the beginning of my skating fandomness retire. I think that is partly because they either drop out of the scene while still compeitive or they have no place to go in pro-ranks after they have had their fill of competiting.
I miss things like battle of the sexes, world pro, pro-am competitions, ice wars, etc.
These skaters combined with musical artists shows that seem to be trying to take the place of the pro competitions just don't quite cut it for me. It isn't bad seeing them live as you can concentrate on the skaters the whole time...but watching on tv, it just isn't like watching pure skating.
Are the stands filled in events outside the US? I think the ISU does need to change the rules to promote cleaner programs. Skating is still a "sport of theater" (to use a Button-sim) -- and cleanliness (IMO) is essential to this.
The Olys also drove home in an extremely dramatic way the fact that falls do not merely "disrupt a program" but can also spell severe injury to people who seem to be extremely nice and (in many cases, at least from my age perspective) comparatively young. IMO, there is nothing "entertaining" or "enjoyable" in watching nice young kids get hurt -- and if you want to watch people get hurt, there is boxing or rugby instead.
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2005
I don't think the judging system is the problem. I think it is the training techniques. More or less when coaches train skaters they are going to train them the best way they know how. So skaters are using 6.0 techniques and throwing in a whole bunch of difficulty. In time I think coaches will learn how to emphasize the skater strengths. Also nervs is a big issue. As you become more nervous harder to concentrate on details an that probably results in a lot of mistakes. That is the skaters' problem not the system. I would like to see the skaters rise to the demands of Cop. Instead of ISU change rules so I can see doubles all day a girl hold a camel spin forever because that the only position she looks pretty in. Cop award clean programs. Relativly clean Yu-Na 197 vs unclean Carolina 164. It is up to the skaters to step up and put them on the ice.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2004
I think you're overlooking something. Namely, if audiences are declining because they don't care who wins a splatfest then it doesn't matter where the problem is, skaters, coaches or judging system. What matters is that audiences aren't really entranced by what they're seeing and bitching at the skaters (who I'm inclined to give a break since they're just doing the best they can and have zero input in the decision making process that affects them) isn't going to help.
- Joined
- May 6, 2006
Inform audiences about judging protocols--actually show them on TV--and I think that will change. Falls are apparent to anyone--even people who haven't been counting jumps or rotations, and don't know which jumps have been popped to doubles or left out. If people think of the score as something cumulative--something that increases with each spin, step sequence, and jump--then they won't expect each program to have the same point value minus falls.
Football and baseball would also have small audiences if hardly anyone knew the rules...
Your lucky if the music is different - I just got home from the "Challenge events" which is the last stage for qualifying to Nationals in Pre-Novice, Novice, Junior and Senior levels - and about 95% of the ladies skated to basicly the same slow (all be it beautiful) music. Makes it hard to sit thru a whole flight when you have 22/25 ladies with the same basic music.
Also, someone posted earlier about the price of a ticket being too high in the US, it's no different here in Canada ... If you are in the sport or have kids in the sport you are likely to want to go to the shows and competitions but don't have hundreds of dollars sitting around to go:disapp:
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2007
This is true. They did a good job of that during the Olympics, but I don't think they have since. People such as we, who are nuts, learn about because we want to be informed and understand it. But look at the trouble we have. And for the skaters and coaches and choreographers, the rules change every year. The causual fan sitting at home who watches one competition a year will have no idea what is going on because usually they cannot even identify one jump from the other. They used to know, however, when a good program looked good, and when audiences got excited about a skater.
I tried to explain it to my mother-in-law when she was visiting. I had just been to SA and I was trying to explain the CoP system. I just got a blank stare. She was however, totally impressed when I showed her Evan Lysacek's perfornance from last season's Nationals. She went on and on about how she had never bothered watching the men before and now maybe she would and she would have to tell her friend who really liked ice skating. So maybe I did a little PR myself.
But Evan's performance was so over the top, it was obvious why he won. Most performances aren't like that, so viewers are left confused when someone can still medal who falls, or even can win. And they certainly don't understand about GOE's and downgrades.
I think they have made it where the causual fan is turned off because they just can't understand the sport any longer.
How many ladies' events at fall competitions had he watched in the past? Falling all over the place has always been pretty much par for the course in these events. Some more than others, of course, but you'd be hard pressed to find a Grand Prix (or, earlier, Champions Series, or even earlier pre-series) fall event with three clean long performances to fill the podium.
- Joined
- May 6, 2006
I'm a new fan(since the '06 Olympics) and I've watched on the ice network, youtube, and dvds(I got '06 Olympics dvds as a gift.) I had watched skating before when I was younger without becoming a hard core fan or ever being able to identify the jumps. But the protocols were easy to find during the Olympics(they were on the NBC Olympics website) and from then on I looked at them from every competition, and used them to check myself and see if I could recognize jumps correctly. Having access to protocols is probably what made me a hardcore fan.
My brother was the one who bought me the Olympics dvds, and we watched them together...he was a non-fan, but seemed pretty interested, and was asking all kinds of questions about the scoring. I was visiting him during the U.S. Nationals, and he watched only part of it--he liked Jeremy Abbott.
Anyway, abbreviations like we use here can overcomplicate things...GOE really just means "how well was the jump/spin/step sequence performed" and people can see on tv if a spin is slow, or if there's a step out of a jump or hand down, or if someone is struggling in the steps.
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- Jan 4, 2007
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The real problem is it's almost impossible to find skating on tv in North America. I know alot of people who would watch it if it was on and easier to find, but unlike me will not spend hours on youtube digging the video clip out. Casual fans were never really given a chance to get used to the new system, it has been phased out on television. People aren't stupid and it's not the complicated, no more complicated than most sports, only the basic outline needs to be known to understand the points given. I think that if tv stations would acually broadcast events at reasonable hours and advertise alot of viewers would come back. Commentators like Tracy Wilson would also help, one's who have a good understanding of the CoP and explain it well.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2007
Good for you in educating yourself and becoming a hardcore fan in such a short time. Welcome to the club!!! It may have been easier for you than for us old-timers who had to make the switch.
gkelly
My husband has been watching figure skating with me for years. While he is not a serious skating fan, he has some knowledge, more than the average viewer. He knows a messy program when he sees one that's for sure. A clean program is a thing of beauty, and now, a rare thing of beauty.
I have been watching the skating arenas this year and I have noticed the poor attendance. It's a sport in decline, primarily because the ISU has completely screwed up the sport/scoring system so that no one understands what they are watching. If you need a skating manual to explain the rules for goodness sakes, IT'S OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Only the hardcore fans, like us, are going to watch. No wonder no one wants to advertise and support the sport-there is no return on it.
There is one other reason the sport is declining-no Michelle Kwan. Her impact on the sport was enormous and now we are seeing just how enormous. The only place where you see semi-full arenas anymore are in Japan, where you have some top skaters.
I need to sign off before I depress myself even more.
My husband has been watching figure skating with me for years. While he is not a serious skating fan, he has some knowledge, more than the average viewer. He knows a messy program when he sees one that's for sure. A clean program is a thing of beauty, and now, a rare thing of beauty.
I have been watching the skating arenas this year and I have noticed the poor attendance. It's a sport in decline, primarily because the ISU has completely screwed up the sport/scoring system so that no one understands what they are watching. If you need a skating manual to explain the rules for goodness sakes, IT'S OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Only the hardcore fans, like us, are going to watch. No wonder no one wants to advertise and support the sport-there is no return on it.
There is one other reason the sport is declining-no Michelle Kwan. Her impact on the sport was enormous and now we are seeing just how enormous. The only place where you see semi-full arenas anymore are in Japan, where you have some top skaters.
I need to sign off before I depress myself even more.
I Totally agree. The additional problem I find is that whether it's the current skaters, or the COP influence, for me the beautiful skates of the past, were not just programs - they were performances - heavily influenced by musicality, art, portrayal and theme - the fantastic athletics was almost hidden in the beauty - more like dance. I just haven't seen that in so long. And that truely is what made me a fan of figure skating. I loved the performances in which the whole became greater than the sum of it's parts. Michelle was brilliant at that. Now the parts equal the whole - and I do blame COP in part for that. I really find the current programs tedious and very boring, similar, and non musical, even when skated technically well. And when skaters fall all over the place trying programs that are to difficult for them in the hopes that they'll stand up and score high - well I can barely watch.
How beautifully described!
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