Is Yukari Nakano undermarked?

Bennett · Dec 25, 2007

I hear some people say Yukari is undermarked.

I agree that her PCS could be a bit higher. Her skating skills improved during the last two seasons. She has also come to care a lot about her presentation and has improved so much.

On the other hand, her TES looks like about the right to me because she is losing points due to underrorated jumps, wrong edges, and perhaps non-positive GOEs due to the leg wrap.

Yet, I do not see much triple axel effect on her placement. When Mao landed 3A at last Worlds (though slightly two-footed), some people used to say that her PCS were inflated because of the 3A just as having 3-3s may help your PCS. But this is obviously not the case for Yukari.

sorcerer · Dec 26, 2007

She shouldn't smile when she does the spirals to music that does not express happiness at all.
There she loses some IN points.
No artificial beaming would be better off, IMO.
Otherwise I like her skating a lot, more each year, ..of course except that leg wrap... only if she could get rid of that.

Bennett · Dec 26, 2007

sorcerer said:
She shouldn't smile when she does the spirals to music that does not express happiness at all.
There she loses some IN points.
No artificial beaming would be better off, IMO.
Otherwise I like her skating a lot, more each year, ..of course except that leg wrap... only if she could get rid of that.

Her smile at spirals...! Interesting point. I agree lady skaters sometimes have a forced smile, but perhaps better than no smile at all

It doesn't look like she can get rid of the wrap leg. She and her coach seriously worked on it, but couldn't. But after her retirement, she can choose to do only jumps that she doesn't do the wrap in her ice shows. Then people would be enchanted. :love:

Tinymavy15 · Dec 28, 2007

i think that nukuri is a charming skater. she somtimes dosen't have that 'it" fatcor that mao has, but IMO is much better than Fumie, who beat her at nationals. I think that it's not fair the way she does those beautiful 3 axels and nobody even rewards her.

JonnyCoop · Dec 29, 2007

I'd say she's undermarked in PCS especially when compared to Ando. IMHO Yukari skates much more interesting programs than Miki, and at least makes attempts to have more going on than just going from one jump to another, and yet she never seems to get credit for that. Either Yukari is undermarked, or Miki is overmarked, in this department, or possibly a little of both.

fairly4 · Dec 29, 2007

If you think Yukari is undermarked, than Joannie, Miki, Yu-Na , Mao, Caroline Kare overmarked in their PCS scores. because they all make a little mistakes.-like slight two footing their jumps, slight wrong take off and landing edges.
Flailing of arms, when nothing is there for them to do it. spraying of ice when they land and shouldn't; messing up on spins and getting a higher level than should, slight underrotating or overrotating of jumps.
in the past Sasha, Irinia was overmarked both in TES and PCS scores.

Fossi · Dec 29, 2007

She's cute, but that leg wrap is distracting!

Bennett · Dec 29, 2007

JonnyCoop said:
I'd say she's undermarked in PCS especially when compared to Ando. IMHO Yukari skates much more interesting programs than Miki, and at least makes attempts to have more going on than just going from one jump to another, and yet she never seems to get credit for that. Either Yukari is undermarked, or Miki is overmarked, in this department, or possibly a little of both.

I totally agree that Yukari may be undermarked and Miki may be overmarked in their PCSs when comparing these two.

Regarding, skating skills and transitions, Yukari is not necessarily slower or has less transitions than Miki.
Regarding interpretation and choreos, Yukari has more complicated choreos and is much more sophisticated than Miki in connecting to music. Miki's SP is pretty empty in terms of choreos. Although Miki has much stronger charisma, it's coming more from her bigger jumps, overall powerfulness, and athleticism, rather than musical and theatrical skills.
Regarding the basic posture and positions, they may be similar. Neither of them have a good posture, nice arms, good turn-out knees, or stretched legs. Besides, Yukari has the wrap leg. But her posture and arms are significantly getting better over the years whereas Miki's posture has unfortunately remained one of the worst out there.

Skye · Dec 30, 2007

Bennett said:
I totally agree that Yukari may be undermarked and Miki may be overmarked in their PCSs when comparing these two.

Regarding, skating skills and transitions, Yukari is not necessarily slower or has less transitions than Miki.
Regarding interpretation and choreos, Yukari has more complicated choreos and is much more sophisticated than Miki in connecting to music. Miki's SP is pretty empty in terms of choreos. Although Miki has much stronger charisma, it's coming more from her bigger jumps, overall powerfulness, and athleticism, rather than musical and theatrical skills.
Regarding the basic posture and positions, they may be similar. Neither of them have a good posture, nice arms, good turn-out knees, or stretched legs. Besides, Yukari has the wrap leg. But her posture and arms are significantly getting better over the years whereas Miki's posture has unfortunately remained one of the worst out there.

I was thinking just like you, Bennett, until I got to see both of them LIVE last year. Yes Miki has a terrible posture and not the best choreography nor excellent performance and a whole bunch of other weaknesses. But when she jumps, you can't help but just shut up and stare. Her jumps are really THAT good and makes all her bad posture and arms less glaring, her overall performance so much more complete and better than it actually is. I know PCS aren't supposed to be marked that way, but I would probably be doing the same thing if I were a judge.

On the other hand, Nakano has some nice qualities to her skating and simply wonderful spins, but her program is more like a string of elements because she appears to be mentally focused on just completing one after another. (I think the "artificial" smile in her spiral sequences that sorcerer has pointed out comes from such nervousness. It looks like that's the only moment she can catch her breath and remember to perform.) Not to mention that the leg wrap is even worse when you see it done right in front of your face.

JonnyCoop · Jan 1, 2008

Perhaps it does make a difference to see them "live", but I personally have never been overly impressed by even Miki's BASIC jumping ability. Then again, while I acknowledge the importance of jumps, when I watch a performance, I place less weight on the jumps than I do the overall look and feel of the program (unless they're out there doing a Human Zamboni routine, in which case that naturally affects the overall look and feel considerably.). IMHO, Nakano's programs, despite some flaws, just LOOK a lot better than Ando's.

As far as "charisma", that too can be considered a matter of perception. I also feel Yukari has much more going on than Miki in that department as well. With Miki, I get the feeling more than half the time that she'd rather be elsewhere doing something else.

sorcerer · Jan 1, 2008

Please look at Miki in a longer span of time.

I think she has recently rediscovered her joy in skating.
She was in a long dark tunnel of that burnout syndrome, but she's sure out of it, IMO.

DragonPhoenix · Jan 1, 2008

Bennett said:
Although Miki has much stronger charisma, it's coming more from her bigger jumps, overall powerfulness, and athleticism, rather than musical and theatrical skills.

I agree that Miki has much stronger charisma, and for me part of that is BECAUSE of her music and theatrical skills, not lack of. Yes, Miki has wonderful powerful jumps, but what I really love is watching her artistry and theatrical performance. Since last season, her artistry has blossomed and beautiful to watch.

I also enjoy watching Yukari Nakano's performances.

And really, it's all just everyone's personal opinion anyway. That's all.
I watch figure skating as an art, because I love beautiful art. Although jumps can be fun to watch, I watch figure skating more as an art form.

And also, is it necessary to put down one skater in order to compliment another ? Isn't it enough to compliment rather than putting down others ?

DragonPhoenix · Jan 1, 2008

JonnyCoop said:
Perhaps it does make a difference to see them "live", but I personally have never been overly impressed by even Miki's BASIC jumping ability.

Really ? Miki, the only woman in HISTORY to land a QUAD in cop, and you question her BASIC jumping ability ???

:rofl:

GoldMedalist · Jan 2, 2008

Yukari's flying Camel is often under-marked because of a rather bad rule.

You see, you're supposed to get a level feature now if you hold the spin position for 8 revolutions. Yukari always holds her donut position for well over 8 revs in the flying camel and adds in a nice arm position too.

However, the rule states it has to be 8 revolutions without any change of position whatsoever. So, that lovely arm position she adds actually hurts her grade. How boring/dumb. As such, Yukari's amazing flying camel (the best in the World right now) has been getting level 3 instead of the level 4 that it deserves (the tech caller at Skate Canda gave it level 4 though -- good on them!).

Yukari's PCS marks were also too low last year. Especially her wonderful Memoirs of a Geisha SP. I would have ranked that as the 3rd best SP last year in terms of PCS. I'd say she's been slightly undermarked in PCS this year, but her programs aren't as good as last year so it's not as much of an error.

In general I feel she is a very good skater.

~Z

Is Yukari Nakano undermarked?

Bennett

sorcerer

Bennett

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win

JonnyCoop

fairly4

Fossi

Bennett

Skye

JonnyCoop

sorcerer

DragonPhoenix

DragonPhoenix

GoldMedalist

Match Penalty

Similar threads

Connect with us