Gay Marriage | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Gay Marriage

JOHIO2

Medalist
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
Weighing in on the question of gay adoption, even tho I haven't yet said I have no problem with gay marriage. With or without "marriage," I think that a stable, mature and loving parent or parents is more important than whether that parent is male or female and whether a couple is 2male or 2female or 1ofeach.

I thought that story on ABC (think it was Diane Sawyer) where Rosie O'Donnell "came out" on tv in support of gay adoption said some interesting things. I'm with Mathman, many of the children available for adoption are difficult to place. That story on ABC (forget when it was - at least a year or two ago) highlighted a male couple who were good foster parents for difficult children. The State of Florida trusted them with the kids, but when they tried to adopt a boy with HIV, who they had been parenting practically since his birth, they ran into discrimination.

However, Ptichka, I can certainly see the emotional component against letting gay men adopt. For so long, we have been hearing so much about priest pedophiles. Pedophilia is statistically more common with male offenders and the emotional costs for the child are so high that it does give one pause. In theory, if prospective parents are screened adequately, it shouldn't happen. But it does and not just for adoptive parents. I guess it becomes a chance that society takes in adoption. But there are plenty of pedophiles who have children, are related to children, live near children or put themselves in a position to be near children.

I also think there is a risk of discrimination - against the parents, the children, the family as a whole. As for role models.....a child who gets the basics of love and caring and ethics should have the tools to adjust to a lack of a father or mother. I think all children are better off with parents. Period.

Whew! Guess I'll jump off the soapbox and take a breath!
 
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Flora MacDonald

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 4, 2003
My church just got a gay bishop.
Our church is somewhat divided on the subject but I'm happy for the guy.
The soon-to-be Rt. Reverend Gene Robinson is currently in a commited relationship of about 13 years.
Our church currently does not really have gay marriage as such.
Because of this many of our gay clergy have chosen celibacy.
I hope that he can get beyond the reaction to his sexuality and on with God's work.
 

heyang

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
What does pedophilia have to do with being gay? I've never heard of any studies linking homosexuality to pedophilia. I realize a lot of the recent church abuse cases relate to priests assaulting boys, but these men aren't gay - they are sick. With regards to the church, I think the priests have more 'access' to boys then they do girls.

With regards to 'gay' adoptions, nothing wrong there. IMO, I think they may be more conscientious about teaching children the value of an open mind. How many opposite-sex-parents teach their kids to discriminate against 'homos' as compared to 'homos' teaching their kids to hate 'straights? The value of an open mind is priceless.

As for role models, there's nothing wrong with a loving aunt/uncle, grandparent or close family friend to fill in the so-called missing gender appropriate role.
 

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Changed my mind about commenting.
 
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Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Just to clarify: I do NOT beleive that gay parents would be potential pedophiles any more than straight ones. I guess I just cannot imagine a girl being raised in an environment surrounded predominantly by males, with potentially very little female input. I mean, seriously guys, who would teach her about fashion and make up and stuff, right :D ?
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Ptichka said:
I mean, seriously guys, who would teach her about fashion and make up and stuff, right :D ?
But that's the very thing that gay men are better at than straight men! I hope that's not a stereotype, but, a little bit OT, are you guys watching "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy?"

Mathman
 

Lcp88

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
QUOTE]. IMO, I think they may be more conscientious about teaching children the value of an open mind. How many opposite-sex-parents teach their kids to discriminate against 'homos' as compared to 'homos' teaching their kids to hate 'straights? The value of an open mind is priceless.[/QUOTE]

ITA. You find more straights with homophobia then homosexuals with a fear/hatered of straights.

Re: Queer Eye For the Straight Guy - I think that show is more additcing and more fun then any of the other reality/make-over shows out there .:) :)
Laura
 

eliza88

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 6, 2003
I have no problem with gay marriages or gays adopting children. People seem to have this stereotype that behind gay doors it's party central with promiscuity on constant display. Ridiculous. A good loving relationship is what counts--be it straight or gay.

As for raising children--a loving home and supportive parents should be the prerequisite, not sexual orientation.

eliza88
 

Antilles

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Pedophilia is definitely more common among straight men. I can't remember the exact stats. The gender of the child doesn't often matter to the abuser, just that the person is young and powerless.

I am in favour of both marriage and adoption, and can't believe this is still an issue. Let people live their lives.
 

rtureck

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
JOHIO2 said:
As for role models.....a child who gets the basics of love and caring and ethics should have the tools to adjust to a lack of a father or mother. I think all children are better off with parents. Period.

I agree, children who receive the basics of love and caring and ethics should have the tools to adjust. I think this even applies to orphans. Role models are important, but if there are no real life role models there are still heros.

Mathman said

____________________________

Boys that grow up in homes without fathers, for instance, have a hard time learning what it is to be a man. Disproportionately, they end up as troubled teenagers or adult criminals. (Speaking of Chauvinism, sociologists and behavioral psychologists have not devoted nearly as much effort to studying the effects of girls growing up in a home where one parent is absent. They're only girls, after all, why waste our money studying their problems.)
________________________________

A bit off topic here
I don't follow sociologists research, I know in real life people who grew up without fathers, they have done real well, and defy the statistics. Perhaps sociologists should study these folks and find out the secret to their resiliency.

I think if we look at the leaders movers and shakers in history, many of them were half or full orphans.

President Lincoln's mother died when he was 6. Joan of Arc lost her parents at a young age. How about Moses, technically his biological father was alive, but not available.

On topic gay marriage, I really have no comment and conclusion currently.
 
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Joined
Jul 11, 2003
What about the childfen in dysfunctional familes. You know, prostitution, alcoholism, drugs, etc. You have the father and mother but ....... or the mother who really has not yet grown up to be a mother but is overly concerned about herself and a father who is so absorbed in his work......

The bottom line is the child who grows up with loving parents whether straight or gay has the best chance to succeed in life and will continue this love to his/her own family when he/she becomes a parent.

Joe
 

rtureck

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Joesitz said:
What about the childfen in dysfunctional familes. You know, prostitution, alcoholism, drugs, etc. You have the father and mother but .....

Some resilient ones can rise above that too. I know someone who grew up sitting in front of the bars waiting for her parents and turned out to be a very nice person and successful attorney.

About children growing up with gay parents, intuitively I agree. Are there any data to support our intuition?
 

Shallah

Spectator
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
I agree gay marriage should be legal

Like a song once said 'What the world needs now is love sweet love'. If two people want to commit their lives to one another, to love and support each other go for it! We need all the love support and compassion we can get. I also support gay adoption. If they meet the standards let them adopt. The more loving supportive parents there are for foster kids the better!

re: fatherless sons - has any studies compared orphened sons vs. sons of divorced parents? is the divorce more traumatic than total lack of male parent? Just curious as though much of human history kids have been raised up with one parent gone for various reasons. Mothers often died during childbirth. Fathers died in war. either or both parents died in epidemics. The human race has survived. I can't help but think that kids raised by homosexual parents of the opposite sex to the child have as good a chance as any at a healthy up bringing. Also like another pointed out what about aunts and uncles not to mention grandparents to model behavior?

re: child abusers - I refuse the use the term pedophile as phile = love. child sexual abusers are vile horrible criminals. they are predators utterly lacking in love. I once read the stats on child sexual abuse and the majority of abuse was male on female with fathers and stepfathers as the top abusers. males who abuse boys are no more homosexual than males who abuse girls are straight!

Another thing - there are a small number of people born every year who are not exactly male or female. They are called intersexed. Doctors and parents often make a choice that the child should be 'fixed' to be more female than male and remove the parts that make them otherwise. the problem is these kids grow up to not fit in with the gender that was chosen for them. but back to gay marriage -what is the law to do when someone who is genetically inbetween wants to marry? What of those who are genetically male but develop into females outwardly due to a genetic defect that is only detected when the girl does not get 'the curse'?

One more thing - convicted criminals can marry even if they are on death row. Murders and rapists. people who have beaten their spouses half to death can marry yet homosexuals who have committed no crimes can't.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
rturek - Rosie O'Donnel's kids will grow up totally in good shape. Rosie seems to be more interested in parenting than show biz. I know of two guys whom I believe want to make sure everything is going well that they tend to be doting parents. Their adopted daughter is busy with piano and ballet lessons; the boy is in Little League. Sad, but both kids get made fun of for having two dads.

I think it beats forster homes which in many cases is used for the income.

Joe
 

kzarah

Le Patineur et sa Petite Lulu
On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
I wonder how many in the forum are of the homosexual persuasion? Should we take a poll?
Daniel and Little Lulu
PS
Little Lulu does have a new boyfriend. It is a platonic relationship. Not only is Little Lulu unable to purr, she doesn't seem to be interested in either gender that way.
D & L
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
There was avery interesting piece on National Public Radio yesterday about the family pride week in Provincetown. It's all about gay parents and their adopted children. Very enlightening. I guess after hearing the whole show the only gay adoption that I still have a problem with is gay males adopting girls.
 
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