4CC/Worlds & Weir's Withdrawal

dwiggin3 · Jan 30, 2008

The wisdom of Skating in 4C's and Worlds

I'm wondering how wise it is for skaters who have been assigned both 4C's (in Korea) and Worlds (Sweden) to attend both.

The travel time and acclimation to Korea seems significant, even for those on the west coast. This event starts in 2 weeks. Given that nationals ended on 1/27 and skaters most likely only got back on the ice on 1/29, how difficult will it be for them to then have to get on a plane to Korea to skate the week of 2/11? I'd think they'd need to begin traveling around 2/7, giving them less than 2 weeks to train between nationals and 4C's. Perhaps they're training somewhere other than home? If so, that still must wear on them. Imagine packing for 8-10 days at nationals and then finding out you'll return home in say, a month. Yikes!

With Worlds being in Sweden on 3/17, skaters will have just 1 month from the end of 4C's to the beginning of Worlds...subtract 4-5 days for travel from South Korea to home/other temp. training center and from home/other temp. training center to Sweden, you're looking at max. 3 weeks of training - some or all of it could be at home or a temp. training center.

I know skaters train for this and part of the conditioning is being able to travel, but goodness, going from the upper mid-west of America, to S.Korea and then to northern Europe in 2 months is crazy!

Thoughts....

skatergirl45 · Jan 30, 2008

That is crazy..............
However, I see most high profile skaters who are eligible will do both for the world standings bonus.........

These skaters will have so much wear and tear on their bodies that they will not be able to perform at worlds to their full potential since they have been traveling SO much.

I guess that this is the result of being a world class skater.

sorcerer · Jan 30, 2008

skatergirl45 said:
....However, I see most high profile skaters who are eligible will do both for the world standings bonus....

Hi.
Only one championship counts for ISU standings.
IceNetworks' rankings counts both.

chuckm · Jan 30, 2008

I think it depends on what each skater wants to accomplish.

4CC is an excellent opportunity to tweak a program or try out new jumps. Johnny Weir hasn't gone to 4CC since 2002 (when he was 4th), although he could have gone from 2004 on as US Champion / medalist. That he is going this year says he wants to try out new things in his FS, or go for more challenging jump combinations. Evan may want to go to try to beat Takahashi, who beat Evan at Skate America and the GPF.

Carriere and Wagner are making their debuts at a Senior ISU Championship, which is good preparation for their first Worlds. Liang and Navarro/Bommentre have been to 4CC before (Bebe won bronze in 2006), but 4CC is a good prep for their first Worlds; N/B are hoping to place on the 4CC podium after a 5th place last year. Wester/Barantsev are making their first appearance at an ISU Championship event as well.

For Inoue/Baldwin (who have always gone to 4CC if they were not ill or injured) and Castile/Okolski, it is an important opportunity to try out their programs before ISU judges for the first time this season.

Belbin/Agosto have gone to 4CC every year since 2002, but this year they may feel they need to work hard on their CD (which will be announced at 4CC), OD and FD to have any chance to challenge DomShabs for gold in Sweden. They may have felt that the long trip would take 10 days away from training, and that was too much at this time.

Davis/White are probably anxious to see how ISU judges react to their completely revamped FD.

Tonichelle · Jan 30, 2008

well with Champions On Ice no longer around, they have more time to recoop after a long season....

Joesitz (RIP) · Jan 30, 2008

I'm surprised this wasn't swtiched to the 4CC folder. I guess it's whimsical.

waxel · Jan 30, 2008

dwiggin3 said:
I know skaters train for this and part of the conditioning is being able to travel, but goodness, going from the upper mid-west of America, to S.Korea and then to northern Europe in 2 months is crazy!
Thoughts....

I don't think it's too much. Sure they miss a few training days here and there- but suck it up ... fly and skate. But then I generally don't agree with the "too much travel- too many competitions" school of thought. These are supposed to be world class athletes and need to be able to handle the rigors of the sport.

Yes, some continent-hopping-closely bunched competitions may be too difficult to manuever- I just don't think Nats to 4CC to Worlds is a good example.

bekalc · Jan 30, 2008

I totally agree with the above post. I don't believe the whole two much competition is automatically bad theory. Now yeah, you may not be able to do every competition. But I would think that the best preparation for a big competition is a smaller competition.

It depends though. If I were the USFSA though I'd be insisting that Wagner attend 4C's just because it will help her international ranking, AND it will give her more exposure.

beep_beep · Jan 30, 2008

Joesitz said:
I'm surprised this wasn't swtiched to the 4CC folder. I guess it's whimsical.

Whimsical
don't hear that very often...

rain · Jan 31, 2008

chuckm said:
Belbin/Agosto have gone to 4CC every year since 2002, but this year they may feel they need to work hard on their CD (which will be announced at 4CC), OD and FD to have any chance to challenge DomShabs for gold in Sweden. They may have felt that the long trip would take 10 days away from training, and that was too much at this time.

Davis/White are probably anxious to see how ISU judges react to their completely revamped FD.

I think for B/A there's also a bit of strategy of not wanting to face V/M again before worlds. While they've placed above them all season, there's no guarantee that if the international judges wanted to send DomShabs into worlds as the uncontested favourites, they might just give V/M a win here. Plus there's always the chance that V/M would win it on their own merits.... I believe, all conspiracy theories aside, it would be likely that B/A would take top spot at 4CC, however, they really have nothing to win, so to speak, by going, only something to lose.

It's definitely in D/W's best interests to get their basically all-new FD out in front of international judges. U.S. nationals isn't really all that indicative of what they can expect on the world stage. I'm sure they want to see how close they can get to V/M.

Geesesk8 · Jan 31, 2008

Johnny Weir withdraws from 4CC
From USFS:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/event_story.asp?id=40361

I am glad Johnny and Galina made this decision. His his time is better spent preparing for Worlds than travelling around the world to competitions.

I wonder what Evan will do........

penguin girl · Jan 31, 2008

Johnny withdraws from 4C!

Check the headlines of USFSA site. Is this just typical Johnny? At least Jeremy Abbott will be going though!!!!

dwiggin3 · Jan 31, 2008

penguin girl said:
Check the headlines of USFSA site. Is this just typical Johnny? At least Jeremy Abbott will be going though!!!!

I think its wise. At least his made a decision in enough time for Jeremy to prepare. In this case, I think Johnny's time is better spent training.

chuckm · Jan 31, 2008

rain said:
I think for B/A there's also a bit of strategy of not wanting to face V/M again before worlds. While they've placed above them all season, there's no guarantee that if the international judges wanted to send DomShabs into worlds as the uncontested favourites, they might just give V/M a win here. Plus there's always the chance that V/M would win it on their own merits.... I believe, all conspiracy theories aside, it would be likely that B/A would take top spot at 4CC, however, they really have nothing to win, so to speak, by going, only something to lose.

I don't think B/A were motivated not to go to 4CC by fear of losing to V/M, seeing as they beat V/M rather comfortably at the GPF.

What B/A don't want is to lose what amounts to 10 days of practice time by traveling to Korea and back. They need to be in top shape to have any hope of narrowing the gap between themselves and DomShabs.

OTOH, considering the composition of the judging panel at Worlds (as many as 6 former SSRs on the FD panel) V/M perhaps should be concerned about being passed by K/N.

chuckm · Jan 31, 2008

I guess Evan will have to be happy with a silver medal. Daisuke Takahashi has beaten Evan twice this year so far (Skate America and the GPF) and he's probably going to beat him again. :biggrin:

museksk8r · Jan 31, 2008

I'm not surprised by his decision to withdraw since he hasn't competed in this event since 2002. His long program needs a lot of help choreographically for him to challenge for medals at the World Championships. What he skated at Nationals is not a well balanced long program. He needs to move more of his jump elements to the post-2 minute mark, include a 3rd combination jump pass, and work on increasing the levels on his footwork and improving his speed. Otherwise, his program will continue to be technically inferior and allow skaters with tougher programs to have point cushions over him in the event they make errors. The way Johnny's program is designed at the moment, he needs to skate it perfectly and hope other skaters make major errors in order for him to win. He needs to close the gaps on all the point windows that are currently open in his program so that he doesn't continue to give points to the field.

Tinymavy15 · Jan 31, 2008

I say good decison. He needs the training time instead of trying to beat Evan where it dosn't really matter. Would not be surpried if Evan dropped out to.

Vodka Shot · Jan 31, 2008

OTOH, considering the composition of the judging panel at Worlds (as many as 6 former SSRs on the FD panel) V/M perhaps should be concerned about being passed by K/N.

Where did you see the nationality list for worlds judges? I wouldn't mind having a gander at that.

Joesitz (RIP) · Jan 31, 2008

The discussion here is just that his fans will continue to ok anything he does.

for me, he's not going and I don't really worry about that. Johnny's a big boy now and he knows what he wants do and what not to do.

speaking of Daisuke, do you think that factored into his not going?

Joe

GoldMedalist · Jan 31, 2008

Joesitz said:
speaking of Daisuke, do you think that factored into his not going?

No. I think this is a competition Johnny never wants to attend. It's quite apparent why most skaters who already have Worlds coming up wouldn't want to go.

4CC/Worlds & Weir's Withdrawal

dwiggin3

skatergirl45

sorcerer

chuckm

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

Joesitz (RIP)

waxel

bekalc

beep_beep

rain

Geesesk8

penguin girl

dwiggin3

chuckm

chuckm

museksk8r

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win

Vodka Shot

Joesitz (RIP)

GoldMedalist

Match Penalty

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