Why are Mao and YuNa unable to show facial expressions?

Joesitz (RIP) · Feb 3, 2008

Such talented Ladies both with beautiful flow and great technique, yet they somehow do not show any emotion on the ice.

Surely, Chopin should conjur up a romantic mood. Subtle smiles should be apparent.

Ms Saigon, Alain Boubli had music that ran the gamut of happiness, love, fear and disaster.

I don't these soooo talented ladies are old enough to show expression on the ice.

Joe

Tonichelle · Feb 3, 2008

They secretly want to be Russian pairs skaters... they never smile either...

Tinymavy15 · Feb 3, 2008

I think that Mao and Yu-na are better than most. Sadly, most skaters do not bring the chreography to their face, world champions or no. I do wonder how skaters can perform to ofen times beautiful music and try to tell a romatic, passionate tale without tellin emotion come into thier face? maybe they are just programmed to concentarte on the jumps and only use thier arms, hands, body...the way they do because they have been programmed that way by coaches, chreographers, etc? not a pleasent thought.

Wrlmy · Feb 3, 2008

I think Mao, like Shizuka Arakawa, is just not the type of skater who emotes through facial expression although her "blank face" is certainly warmer than the coolness of Arakawa. But I think the rest of her body makes up for it. As for Yu-na, I always thought she, along with Caroline Zhang and Rachael Flatt, is one of few younger skaters who show facial expression. Maybe I should re-watch some of her skates because my feeling is based on her last year's performances. But I would suggest her to wear more eyeliner, as Kwan used to do, because her facial feature is relatively subdued.

Joesitz (RIP) · Feb 3, 2008

^ How important do you think facial expression is in being in character with the music which is included in the PCS scores.

Joe

julietvalcouer · Feb 3, 2008

Question, have those nitpicking ever tried to do facial expressions that are planned and choreographed? I'm not pulling the "don't criticize if you can't do it yourself", I'm just saying that deliberately doing facial expressions is very hard without coming across looking goofy.

Wrlmy · Feb 3, 2008

I think it depends on the character of the music and the skater him/herself. Skating through Carmen with a blank face or happy smile would butcher its original character, the same goes for most theatrical pieces. Yu-na, in particular, has usually skated to the music from films and musicals. She must have the visual image of the music in her brain, which should help her visually express the music. I think that's what makes theatrical skaters "theatrical". OTOH, expressing Chopin would be much more difficult, and facial expression would be not as crucial.

bubbleyum · Feb 3, 2008

i've also complained about mao's lack of emotion while skating. seems like mao's expression depends on how she is skating. if she missed her 3-axe, then she feels bad the rest of the prgram and has a frozen face right up till she gets off the ice. if she skated well, then she is smiling and cheerful, sometimes even tearful at the end...

as for yuna, i think she is one of the most expressive skaters on the ice when it comes to facial expression. have you watched her short program? i think i've even seen a post where somebody complained they didn't like her overdone facial expression with the wide open mouth in the middle of her waltz short. miss saigon is a little more subdued.

abbykitty · Feb 3, 2008

Yuna is definitely capable of showing facial expressions. just watch her amazing sp from Worlds last year:

http://www.stage6.com/user/dbsk/video/1819731/2007-World-championship

the best part is when she does her spiral in front of the judges and does a deviant grin which reminded me of Kwan's epic "get out of my way b*tches or I'll cut you" look she gave to the judges during her spiral in her "the feeling begins" sp at 2004 worlds. as for Mao, I haven't seen much facial emotion from her, except at the end of programs she skates well.....but I'm sure that will probably come with more maturity.

when the skaters don't emote, it's probably not because they can't, but they're probably just nervous or more focused on getting the jumps and the technical elements done rather than being in the moment and feeling the music. for some people it just comes naturally....but for others who have to "learn" how to emote, it might feel unnatural to them and they might feel self-conscious for overacting or looking goofy in front of a large crowd....which is why they hold back.

for me, I'd rather see a skater put on a "Sasha Cohen show" face, or at least attempt to express the music....rather than show no emotion at all. it's definitely important and should factor in the interpretation mark....because it can really be the difference between a good and a truly great program.

NatachaHatawa · Feb 4, 2008

I don't think it's such a problem not having facial expressions. Take Shizuka Arakawa. She had barely any facial expressions, but her the choregraphy was brought out in her gestures. Or take for example Sarah Meier. She has a lot of facial expressions, yet I believe it has a negative effect on her body language. When she skates, you see more of her facial expressions than her body language, and so her^performances aren't anyway near as emotional as they could be with her beautiful choregraphies.

Fredegunda · Feb 4, 2008

My first thought was that it is a cultural difference. I don't know if previous examples of other Asian skaters would seem to disprove this conjecture, I don't follow ladies that much. But the Chinese pairs have been criticized for their lack of facial expressions too. Additionally, I think there is a difference between the display of "natural emotion" (happiness while in the midst of a good performance, for example - but then again, showing it or not may be related to cultural norms) and "choreographed emotion."

Medusa · Feb 4, 2008

Fredegunda said:
My first thought was that it is a cultural difference. I don't know if previous examples of other Asian skaters would seem to disprove this conjecture, I don't follow ladies that much. But the Chinese pairs have been criticized for their lack of facial expressions too. Additionally, I think there is a difference between the display of "natural emotion" (happiness while in the midst of a good performance, for example - but then again, showing it or not may be related to cultural norms) and "choreographed emotion."

This is a very good point. I watch this great children's program on our public children's channel and about a year ago there was a documentary about Japanese customs, also mentioning the body language and facial expressions. It basically said that hiding your feelings is the way to go, preferably behind a small smile. Lots of women are used to cover their mouths with their hands while laughing. I found some rules on this College-page, it summarises some customs: Asian politeness

About the issue of laughing it says:

Displaying an open mouth (such as yawning or a wide open laugh) is considered rude in Japan, especially with women who cover their mouths when giggling or laughing.

Eye contact is also not appreciated:

When walking in public places, direct eye contact and staring is uncommon

- China

It is considered rude to stare. Prolonged direct eye contact is considered impolite or even intimidating.

- Japan
For Korea the text says that even while greeting other people it is customary to avoid eye-contact.

Other body language:

Because of the high regard for graciousness and restraint, one should not shout, raise the voice in anger, or exhibit any excessively demonstrative behavior.

One way to show concentration and attentiveness is to close the eyes in contemplation and nod the head slight, up and down.

And again about smiling in general:

Among the Japanese, smiling often can cover a gamut of emotions: happiness, anger, confusion, apologies, or sadness.

The roots of figure-skating are in America and Europe so the facial expressions and emotional body-language are part of the sport. But growing up in an Asian society it must be very hard to change everything about your behaviour when you are on the ice and also under pressure to give your best. Perhaps they even train the programs with more facial expression, but in competition everything is more intense and sometimes a Tiger can't change it stripes...

Off-topic

Men generally have priority in Korea: Go through a door first, walk ahead of women, and women may help them on with their coats.

Wow! I had no idea! I spent all my life teaching my little brother how to be a gentleman - now I can tell him he just needs to go to Korea and he will be courted like a [European] Lady in Europe! Off-topic

minju · Feb 4, 2008

off topic too

Medusa said:
Off-topic Wow! I had no idea! I spent all my life teaching my little brother how to be a gentleman - now I can tell him he just needs to go to Korea and he will be courted like a [European] Lady in Europe! Off-topic

Haha, I'm Korean woman but if your brother did it same at Korea,
then he just hear something like that "Dammit, do it yourself"
Things are changed a lot

But if your brother is a senior, then it'll be..okay?

skatergirl45 · Feb 4, 2008

Hopefully, these girls will be able to show some expression in the future.

For me, however, the biggest offender of this is Mirai Nagasu. No expression and only when she has been told to in the doll coming to life part of the program does she skate with any..................

Tinymavy15 · Feb 4, 2008

I agree with most of the people on here that Yu-na does use her face. She is my list of skaters who use facial expressions well enough.

Men:
Stephane Lambiel
Evan Lysack ( great end pose, but he could use more throught the program)
Kurt Browning

Ladies:
Yu-na Kim
Sasha Cohen
Naomi Nari Nam
Michelle Kwan

Dance:

they are much better at this than everybody else.

Pairs:
Shen and Zhao (recently)
S&S
Mclaughilin and Brubaker

Mathman · Feb 4, 2008

Sometimes less is more. You don't need a face-splitting grin, or features contorted in a parody of passion, to convey emotion.

sorcerer · Feb 4, 2008

If one wants to be healthy, one must take less salt in his meals. When he gets used to it, his tongue becomes more sensitive, and he will find that what he used to eat had TOO MUCH TASTE.
If one only use vivid colors in his paintings, he may eventually lose his sensitivity to delicate hues.
If one has lived a life watching only soap opera, he may find arty films boring. He's wrong, it's not the cinematic art lacking stimulation, it's him that has lost sensitivity.

Figure skating is an elegant sport. Facial expressions should be kept within the limit of elegance.
Over-expression is often cheap.

My personal taste says that many skaters have facial expressions WAY beyond the limit of elegance suited to this sport. ...But taste varies, so it may only be me.

To me Mathman is right, less is more.
Delicacy is the key to elegance, IMO.

Joesitz (RIP) · Feb 4, 2008

^ Is there less or is there none?

Joe

Tonichelle · Feb 4, 2008

I think it just looks like none because we're so used to the over dramatic over emoting of so many other skaters...

feraina · Feb 4, 2008

skatergirl45 said:
For me, however, the biggest offender of this is Mirai Nagasu. No expression and only when she has been told to in the doll coming to life part of the program does she skate with any..................

Well, to be fair she displays plenty of happiness/cheefulnes in her SP and other happy/cheerful programs she's been skating to. So she definitely can display some emotions -- I'm just not sure I've seen anything but happiness/cheerfulness. I'm trying to imagine a "soulful" look from Mirai, but am not quite succeeding -- maybe in another two years?

Besides, Mirai is born in the US and mostly raised in American culture, and she's been attending American schools and presumably socializes extensively with American kids, so if she is at all lacking in expression, then it can't be put down mostly to cultural differences...

Michelle Kwan, not to forget, was also Asian American, and raised by very Chinese parents. And of course she set the bar (whether one likes it or not) for facial expressiveness. :love:

Why are Mao and YuNa unable to show facial expressions?

Joesitz (RIP)

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win

Wrlmy

Joesitz (RIP)

julietvalcouer

Wrlmy

bubbleyum

abbykitty

NatachaHatawa

Fredegunda

Medusa

minju

skatergirl45

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win

Mathman

sorcerer

Joesitz (RIP)

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

feraina

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