View Poll Results: Do you appreciate the CoP?

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  • I generally like the CoP system

    59 72.84%
  • I generally dislike the CoP system

    22 27.16%
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Thread: CoP: Good or Bad for Figure Skating?

  1. #1
    Custom Title NatachaHatawa's Avatar
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    CoP: Good or Bad for Figure Skating?

    With all the debate going on in the forum about the CoP, I thought I'd post this thread to see what people think about it in general.

  2. #2
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    The judging system has its problems, but so did 6.0. The primary problem is and always has been some of the judges who choose to cheat.

  3. #3
    Custom Title NatachaHatawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    The judging system has its problems, but so did 6.0. The primary problem is and always has been some of the judges who choose to cheat.
    I agree. I personnaly trust most judges, which is why I prefer a more global system like the 6.0 one. As you said, both systems have their flaws, but at least the old one allowed a real Free skate and so allowed the sport to evolve and skaters to create something originale. With this system, all programs look the same, skaters are obliged to do the same things to get the points (take the Beillman spin in the ladies competition - everyone's doing it to get the points, but most of them look awful) and they can't really create. Since the new system has been in place I feel that our sport and art is dying, and instead of progressing, like before, it's going backwards.

  4. #4
    Sitting Here on Blue Jay Way silver.blades's Avatar
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    I'm sick of hearing all the complaints about all the programs looking the same and how basic positions are no longer held and spirals have been ruined and that the freeskate is no longer free. The fact is that most programs have always looked the same, people don't remember the cookie-cutter programs of the past because they wern't any good. The great, artistic programs stand out and have always been in the minority. Maybe the freeskate could do with a few less restrictions, but the artisicly inclined and talented skaters continue to produce memorable programs. Another thing to remember is the last 15 years or so of skating have produced alot of all time greats, not every generation gets that lucky, the CoP has nothing to do with that. The majority of skaters have always been athletes who preform to music, that hasn't changed.
    In regards to spins, almost no one used to hold them at all, at least they last a decent amout of time no, and those who are not the greatest spinners are being forced to improve their spins as opposed to ignoring them. And IMO spiral sequences have always been horrible.
    The CoP has bugs to be worked out and it will never be perfect because human beings arn't perfect, but the 6.0 needed to be replaced. How can anyone be expected to sit through 5 hours of skating and then judge if the person who skated last is better or worst than the person who skated first? IMO that's not fair to either the skater or the judge because there is no way that that can be expected of anyone.

  5. #5
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    IMO, CoP has been good for figure skating with the exception of ice dance. Whereas CoP just needs to be tweaked in singles and pairs, I think it needs a rather major reworking for ice dancing.

  6. #6
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    while it's far from perfect (which I think is impossible for any system) it's better than what we had.

    I like the CoP and I hate math... lol but it works more for SPORT... art cannot be judged the same by everyone, we all have our personal tastes... so people are going to cry foul no matter what system you use.

  7. #7
    Banned AwesomeIce's Avatar
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    Overall, I like COP and I think it has been good for skating. No, it isn't perfect and yes, it could be better, but IMHO it is far better than the old 6.0 system. I do think that skaters still get screwed over from time to time by judges who don't use PCS marks correctly, but that happened with the presentation mark in the old system, too. I think it gives skaters a better idea of what they need to work on, and even though it is a lot of math and such, I think if that if skating fans (casual fans, not the REAL fans, like the kinds than hang out on these sort of boards) would just educate themselves even a little on the new system, they wouldn't think it was so bad. I'd like COP even more if they got rid of anonymous judging, and if they could somehow get judges to use PCS correctly! Won't hold my breath on that one, though.

  8. #8
    Custom Title NatachaHatawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AwesomeIce View Post
    I think if that if skating fans (casual fans, not the REAL fans, like the kinds than hang out on these sort of boards) would just educate themselves even a little on the new system, they wouldn't think it was so bad.
    I can't say I agree with you. I'm a real fan and even though I perfectly understand the new system, I hate it. Without going into detail, I think both systems have their flaws, but the new one is just killing skating, and most skaters don't like it. Skaters aren't free at all. A global system, with all it's flaws, allows free programs to actually be free. Plus, questionable judging is still around, I'd say even more than before, so in that respect the CoP has failed. The real problem in judging is the people. Most judges are honnest though, and I think we should trust them to decide the technical value of a program not a computer. And as for artistry, the system rather reminds of that scene in Dead Poet's Society, when there's a page in the book that measures peotry mathematicly.
    It was important to try out something new, but I think we should go back to the old system, with some changes, at least skating didn't die. Would Torvill and Dean have been able to have the impact they did on figure skating with such a rigid system? Anyhow, a lot of skaters don't like the system, so I think, them being the first concerned, we should take their opinion into account.

  9. #9
    Desperate Mouse Killer kandidy's Avatar
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    After they changed to CoP, the popularity of figure skate had been decreased.
    Audience doesn't feel together with the numbers and how judges give score.
    Plus, CoP is making athlete prone to injure. Whatever you do, you get points. More difficult jumps, you get more points. Well, good thing, they turned back to give more penalty to edge call and underotate.
    Well, maybe we have to see how it improves year by year. Unless figure skate had decreased popularity into internet sport.

  10. #10
    Banned AwesomeIce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NatachaHatawa View Post
    Most judges are honnest though, and I think we should trust them to decide the technical value of a program not a computer.
    Even if you actually believe that most judges are honest, you have to admit that they are human, and they are biased. I certainly don't think it would be better to allow them to decide the technical value of a program. I think the new system is good in that regard, assigning specific values for specific elements.

  11. #11
    D/W fan ~tapdancer's Avatar
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    I like the CoP. I think it has been a good thing, my favorite discipline is ice dance and now when I watch it, it's exciting and much more unpredictable than the old 6.0 system. The judges may still "place" the dancers but there seems to be more accountability for mistakes than there used to be.

    I'm getting used to the numbers now and when the scores come up, I can tell what it means now! And get an idea of the placement.

  12. #12
    On the Ice icedance21's Avatar
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    My favorite discipline is dance and I have to say that COP is the best thing ever to happen to dance, for sure. Now you see so much movement in the ranks that actually reflect how the dancers skated that program that day.

  13. #13
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    I agree that CoP has actually been good for ice dance - in so much as it has made for far less predictability with events, and greater movement in terms of placement over the course of an event. The 'sport' side of ice dance has benefitted. I find interesting to note though... is (1) while there seems to be a generation of skater coming up to the very top ranks - like Virtue/Moir - who essentially 'grew up with the new system'... there remains a vast majority of judges, who did not. One wonders though.. as a sufficient number of JUDGES make it to the forefront, who similarly "grew up" with the system, how that will impact the sport. Candidly... I would think it a very very difficult task for judges who used 6.0/ordinals for most of their 'careers' to adopt so readily. The 'second phase' of the implications of CoP thus, seems to still lay ahead IMHO.

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