Most 6.0s in international comps!

windspirit · Aug 17, 2003

I, too, think that a 6.0 is usually used for scoring purposes. Only sometimes it means something more than that, like here:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/windspirit6/pics/sixes.jpg

But it doesn't happen often. And I'd rather the judges were more stingy when giving out the highest mark, because many people do take it as a sign of perfection -- even if it's clear it wasn't the case.

BronzeisGolden, great post, but I can't agree with this:

BronzeisGolden said:
Also, I don't think Europeans would be considered an international event since it excludes 3/4 of the World, lol.

Even if only two countries participated it'd be an international competition, wouldn't it? And Europe has, if I'm not mistaken, 44 countries. It also has 38 skating federations (if I counted correctly). I don't really know how you came up with the idea that Europeans (or Europe itself) are not international enough. http://members.lycos.co.uk/windspirit6/sm/oczki.gif I don't even think there's another continent with so many countries that "produce" skaters.

BronzeisGolden · Aug 17, 2003

Windspirit,

I'm thinking more in terms of a competition such as Four Continents, where skaters from China, Australia, Belarus, South Africa, Brazil and Canada could all feesibly compete. Technically, I agree that Europeans is an "international" event. Yet, if certain parts of the world are excluded from an event by rules, it certainly doesn't seem fair to include statistics from this competition in a thread like this. That would be comparable to including results from the old North American Championships, which I assume would also technically be defined as an "international" event. Also, does anyone know when North American skaters stopped participating in the European Championships? Was that in the 50s? How interesting it would be if that were reversed...a pre-Worlds, post-Grand Prix Final showdown. Also, I agree with your thoughts on the "6.0" mark. In some cases it certainly is an indicator of greatness, but I prefer a judge that is hesitant to throw one out. It should be reserved for moments of sheer brilliance. But, lol, I guess that's the trick...sheer brilliance to one can be mediocre to another. I still can't fathom how some felt Shen & Zhou's freeskate this year at Worlds wasn't one for the ages...but some didn't, and that is another reason why I love this sport. I can see 6.0 written all over something while someone else sees a 5.8.

tdnuva · Aug 17, 2003

Do I understand you correctly that in your definition the Four continents ARE an international event but the Europeans are NOT??? Strange.

For me I've divided my listings in:

National competitions

Regional competitions (including Europeans, 4 conts, North American, Nordic, Asian winter games and similar)

International competitions (grand prix and non-grand prix events)
Grand prix finals
Junior grand prix finals

Worlds (senior, junior, synchro)
Universiades

Olympics

Pro and pro-am competitions.

If someone would try to make a list of 6.0s I might contribute - but I think we would need a lot of people from around the world to collect the marks from all those competitions over the years.... (the new ones are often available thru icecalc)

Joesitz (RIP) · Aug 17, 2003

BronzeisG - It was Uncle Dick who caused the Euros to be no longer an Open Competition. You have to realize that Dick was a combo of Yags, Plush, Elvis and Kurt all wrapped up into one at that time. No one could get near him for lst place. The organizers decided that the Euros will be for Europeans only. He's the only nonEuropean to win a European gold.

I think however, with the Grand Prix that we do get a splash of international skaters here and there.

Joe

tdnuva · Aug 17, 2003

Joesitz said:
BronzeisG - It was Uncle Dick (...) He's the only nonEuropean to win a European gold.

Sorry, Joe - he wasn't (in 1948 btw).
Barbara Ann Scott (CAN) won even twice (1947+1948).

And after this year 1948 the officials excluded non-Europeans (but since then they e.g. included Russia of course - which as a great deal of land in Asia - as well as other eastern countries like Georgia and - due to other reasons - Israel).

Anyhow - I suppose no European is allowed to participate in the Four (!) continents. Anybody knows for sure??

Joesitz (RIP) · Aug 17, 2003

thanks for the info Tdnuva - My rush to include Uncle Dick in the downfall of the European Open, I had forgotten about Barbara Ann. Well that makes two N.Americans to close down the European Open.

Joe

Mathman · Aug 17, 2003

Anyhow - I suppose no European is allowed to participate in the Four (!) continents. Anybody knows for sure??

No, but skaters from countries in the former Soviet Union which are actually in Asia can complete in Four Continents. Last year Anastasia Gimazetdinova of Uzbekistan finished ninth in ladies.

BTW, there were also three skaters from Africa (all from the Republic of South Africa). Also at least one from Mexico, proving that "North America" isn't just the United States and Canada. None from South America, though. So I guess the "Four Continents" are North America, Asia, Australia (including New Zealand, which sent two skaters!), and Africa.

I assume that a skater from the Asian part of Russia (most of it) could skate in Europeans but not in Four Continents. Israel is in "Europe," but I don't know where the other countries of the middle east fall, should they decide to participate. (One presumes they have more pressing problems at hand.)

Mathman

BronzeisGolden · Aug 17, 2003

Tdnuva,

How confusing this has gotten! LOL, no, I consider the Europeans an international event. In terms of this thread, though, when determining which skater has the most 6.0s in international competitions it doesn't seem fair to include Nationals or "international" competitions that exclude skaters from certain regions and countries. But, I guess if you think about it, Europeans would become just another Worlds or Grand Prix Final if they opened it back up to all. And the idea of a North American Championship revival sounds good...but the US would be so dominate in most areas. Yet, I think Canada definitely has the edge in pairs and some of the men look promising. Thanks Mathman for the clarification on Four Continents, I didn't realize that it also excluded certain regions of the world. LOL, FOUR Continents probably should have told me that!

All that Jazz · Aug 18, 2003

Wow, "my" thread has become quite interesting, but I'm still not much more clever than before. For example - does somebody know how many 6.0s Plushenko has gotten so far? Any updated link were all 6.0s at international comps (no fluffs!) are included? And IMHO 6.0s at Nationals are irrelevant, because the judges are national biased and the marks usually highly inflated. I've read Elvis Stojko got a 6.0 at Canadian Nationals once, for presentation! This would never ever happend in an international event!

tdnuva · Aug 18, 2003

ATJ,

at the moment no such list seems to exist - so why not trying to start one??

Lanie · Aug 18, 2003

I read on the King on Ice site that Plush has gotten 38 6.0s.

Hanaka · Aug 18, 2003

Hello, I'm new here, too.
Among 38 6.0s Plushenko got, he got 30 at international competitions (3 for tech and 27 for artistry) and 8 at nationals (all for artistry).
http://www.kingonice.com/evgeni6-0.htm

Germanice · Aug 18, 2003

This is really impressive! I mean, most of us never doubt the abilities of the skater Plushenko, but we're all lamenting endlessly about his haircut, costumes, choreography and music edits. Obviously he does everything right, at least the majority of international judges look at it that way.

However, Chapeau, Mr. Plushenko!

Anke

icenut84 · Aug 18, 2003

Mathman said:
So I guess the "Four Continents" are North America, Asia, Australia (including New Zealand, which sent two skaters!), and Africa.

I think Australia and New Zealand come in the continent "Australasia". Australia is a country, not a continent.

Antilles · Aug 18, 2003

I agree with all those that said Nationals should be treated differently. If a country has a great skater, they throw 6.0s around like candy. Look at Bourne and Kraatz, for example. Twice at Nationals they had all 6.0s for presentation. They are fine skaters, but that was a little much. I'm sure there are many examples like them.

A 6.0 definitely isn't always a palce holder. When Anissina and Peizerat got four 6.0s for Carmina Burana in 2000, they were the first skaters in their flight. The other three top teams were still to skate.

BronzeisGolden · Aug 18, 2003

Actually, I think Australia is considered a continent. And WOW, 38 6.0s for Plushenko! That is impressive. He is a skilled skater and I have learned to enjoy him more over the years. I respect that he can (most of the time) put a clean program down with loads of technical difficulty. It also helps that his style has developed quite nicely...no wonder the judges throw 6.0s at him!
Yagudin's count is also impressive..certainly considering so many were received at the Olympics and Worlds.

Most 6.0s in international comps!

windspirit

BronzeisGolden

tdnuva

Joesitz (RIP)

tdnuva

Joesitz (RIP)

Mathman

BronzeisGolden

All that Jazz

tdnuva

Lanie

Hanaka

Germanice

icenut84

Antilles

BronzeisGolden

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