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Thread: Posing for "Playboy" Magazine

  1. #31
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    As someone who has actually seen the pictures, they were done as tastefully as these types of pictures can be. I could definately see that they had been "touched up" somewhat. I'm sure that in addition to the reasons Katt mentioned, financial motivation surely had to be a consideration.

  2. #32
    Kwan's vodka dealer VIETgrlTerifa's Avatar
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    Let me ask a question to all of those who hate seeing teens dress "distastefully."

    Where is the line drawn where a girl dresses either tastefully or distastefully?

    Some people are more open-minded and it takes a really revealing outfit for them to consider the girl dressing "skanky" whereas to other people, just showing your shoulders is "skanky".

    That's why I never thought a really strict dress code should be imposed on teens or young people because people have different opinions on what is distasteful and what is not. Futhermore, people who want to impose strict dress codes at school because they fear that allowing young people to dress the way they want to will make them "skanky", then they are wrong because a "skanky" person will be skanky no matter how they dress anyways.

    I think the only time a dress code is really needed is in the workplace, not in school or elsewhere that is mandatory to attend.

    A lot of the girls posing for playboy are doing it for the money, and I believe they should do what they have to do to pay the bills and eat...as long as they learn how to stay ahead in the businiss and not be taken advantage of.

  3. #33
    Gone with the wind windspirit's Avatar
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    I'm having a déjà vu. There was a very similar thread at the old GS, wasn't it? As for Katarina's choice, beside the fact that Playboy's photos are ridiculously airbrushed and posed I don't see the sin. It's just a human body, get over it.

    Originally posted by Panther2000
    What bring the old diry men into the arena so they could drool all over the little girls coming up.
    Believe me, Panther, they're already there! I've been unfortunate enough to sit next to one at one of the local shows. It was his wife who dragged him there, I doubt it was some skater's nude photos. Btw, if someone who saw Katarina in Playboy went to see a skating show or a competition I'd call that a progress. I'd bet there're quite a few men whose love for the sport started in a similar way.

  4. #34
    Gone with the wind windspirit's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Mathman
    I think I have to support Toni here. When 12-year-old girls deliberately set about to dress in "prostitute chic," they cannot then turn around and pretend that their feelings are hurt when people call them names.
    Pretend? Can't the girls who dress in "prostitute chic" have their feelings hurt for real? And "cannot" sounds as if they didn't have the right to feel hurt or offended, "because they deserve it." That is, name calling is justified if someone "asks" for it (for example, they dress in a way which is not to our tastes), and, according to what you wrote above, they do.

    When a grown-up woman dresses like this, she may have her, not always pure, reasons, but when a 12-year-old kid does it -- all she wants to do is to fit in. I, too, don't approve of kids dressing like that, and I wouldn't let mine do it. And when I'd try to explain to her why not, I'd tell her she's too young to be doing something she can't predict the consequences of, or the implications some people might draw (and I don't even mean the moral judging, but some nasty people thinking up dirty things and acting on them). I'd also tell her that a human body is a very powerful thing (and a beautiful one, too), and she couldn't wholly use hers until she really owned it, and that'd be when she's physically and psychologically mature to be responsible for her choices. Note that nowhere did I use "because only sluts dress like that". There's no need to use emotionally charged language or names, especially when talking to or about kids.
    Last edited by windspirit; 08-19-2003 at 04:23 PM.

  5. #35
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    Originally posted by windspirit
    when a 12-year-old kid does it -- all she wants to do is to fit in.
    Isn't that over simplifying the motive of the 12 y/o a bit? 12 y/o may want to fit in, but are all/ most of her peers dressing in "prostitute chic"? I hope not. Where are/ is this 12 y/o's parent(s), teacher(s), older sibling(s)? I dare say it is not the norm for 12 y/o to dress "prostitute chic", it is probably a RARE few cases. I guess if people call her names, her feelings will be hurt, and those are genuine feelings, but even at 12, this young lady needs to own up to some responsibillity of her choice, and definitely her parents are reponsible for letting her walk out of the door in "prostitute chic", I mean who buy the clothes for her?

  6. #36
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    Originally posted by rtureck
    Isn't that over simplifying the motive of the 12 y/o a bit?
    Changed my mind......sorry! :(
    Last edited by Norlite; 08-19-2003 at 05:00 PM.

  7. #37
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    Originally posted by Norlite
    Do you seriously think a 12 year old has a more complex motive?
    Since most 12 y/o are not dressing in "prostitute chic", I do not think there is really much peer presure to fit in re: prostitute chic . Maybe the pressure comes from the family, e.g. some parents want their daughter to win beauty pageant. I know, dressing up as a beauty queen is not quite the same as dressing "prostittue chic".
    Last edited by rtureck; 08-19-2003 at 05:02 PM.

  8. #38
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    Sorry rtureck, you were too fast for me, I didn't want to take the thread more off-topic than it was.

    :\

  9. #39
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Well, having had my head handed to me about "prostitute chic," I will now sally forth into why I was disappointed that Katarina Witt posed for these pictures.

    The essence of pornography, as contrasted with erotic art, is that by intention it debases and degrades the female subject. Even in soft-core fluff like Playboy, the "girls" are "Playmates," i.e., sex toys for the pleasure of the powerful male reader. If I am fully clothed and you are naked, then I am powerful and you aren't. Look at the male "power suit" -- fully covered from foot to neck. If you so much as leave your collar unbuttoned, you are not as powerful as the guy who has his collar all cinched up around his neck with a necktie. Silly, but there you are.

    (Joke: How do we know that women are smarter than men? Women don't wear neckties.)

    Women businesspeople are seldom taken seriously by men in the workplace because they wear short skirts for us to look up, show cleavage for us to look down, etc. -- they don't take themselves seriously, so why should men take them seriously?

    The reason that people want to see celebrities naked is that this knocks them off their pedestal down into the muck where us commoners roll around. Britney Spears may be a millionaire, while I don't know where my next meal is coming from, but by God I am still better than she is because I've seen her near naked. When Katarina Witt posed for Playboy she took herself out of the category "Olympic champion" and demoted herself to "Bunny."

    I'm not saying that any of these societal attitudes is good or right, it's just the way it is.

    Windspirit: When I said that girls "cannot pretend to have their feelings hurt," what I meant was simply that choices have consequences. If you rob a bank on Friday, you "cannot (justly) contend that the police are picking on you" when they come to arrest you on Saturday.

    This, by the way, is exactly what characterizes the criminal mind. Habitual criminals cannot understand that their actions have consequences. Their feelings genuinely are hurt when these consequences occur. Children must be taught better.

    TerrificGirl, I think it's kind of a moot point, about letting teenagers make their own choices about dress. They are going to do it anyway (it = make their own choices about how to dress, LOL) no matter what we tell them. So all we can do is hope that somehow they turn out all right in the end. Mostly they do.

    If you have a 7th or 8th grader who dresses in a ridiculous fashion, I think that an appropriate punishment is this. Take a picture of him/her, and two years from now, show it to all of his/her friends.

    About peer pressure, and doing whatever the other kids do: The latest fad in Detroit among middle school children (6th to 8th grades) is oral sex. This isn't real sex, see. Just ask Bill Clinton.

    OK, is there anyone I haven't offended yet?

    Mathman

    Editied in view of RTureck's post, below.
    Last edited by Mathman; 08-19-2003 at 08:40 PM.

  10. #40
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    Sorry to be off topic here

    Mathman:

    "I think it is kind of a moot point, about letting teenagers make their own choices about dress. They are going to do it anyway, no matter what we tell them. So all we can do is hope that somehow they turn out all right in the end. Mostly they do."

    I don't think teenagers are going to do
    it (however you want to define it) anyway, no matter what we tell them.

    Actually the teenage years is a time for forming IDEALS, and sky is the limit kind of dreams. What were your dreams when you were in jr high and high school? I remember day dreaming about a bright sky is the limit kind of future with my friends. We were all going to Africa to build hospitals and improve the life and health care there. Some of my friends dreamt about winning the Nobel prize....

    Many teenagers are very willing to listen to their parents / teachers with these goals and ideals in their minds.

  11. #41
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    (Joke: How do we know that women are smarter than men? Men pay good money to women to pose nude, then pay good money for the magazine to look at them. Women just take the money and run........laughing)

    I don't even know if I agree with that...It's just the first thing I thought of.



    All this talk of kids and their clothes is taking me back to the late 60's and early 70's, when we were the "long haired freaky people" and we need not apply.

  12. #42
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    The interesting thing about how people dress, is that two people can wear the same thing and it looks slutty on one person and fine on the other. It all about the attitude of the wearer.

    Mathman, I see your point, but again, it's all in the intent/attitude of the viewer.

    JMHO

  13. #43
    Gone with the wind windspirit's Avatar
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    Originally posted by rtureck
    Isn't that over simplifying the motive of the 12 y/o a bit?
    Yes, it is. I just didn't want to make my post any longer that it was. I'm sure they might have other reasons as well, but my point was, they're just kids and they don't understand the implications of their choices like adults do. So whatever their reasons (be it the need to fit in, or to rebel; or a cry for help or attention; etc., etc.) they don't deserve to be put down for it. Why people are so quick to judge someone and call them names? I've always thought it's a very simplistic way to deal with problems (not to mention quite harmful). Not very effective, too. Why not try to explain why they shouldn't be doing something; show them the rationale behind it? They may not agree with our explanations, but they'll respect us for they way we treated them, and they'll learn from it, too. Like I said, I do not approve of kids dressing like that. I just don't agree with putting them down for it/shaming them into behaving we'd like them to behave/etc. There are other ways.

    even at 12, this young lady needs to own up to some responsibility of her choice
    Sure she does. But she still doesn't deserve to be called names.

  14. #44
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    My 2 cents contribution to this topic

    I have a problem with a 12 yrs old girl all made up with pretty makeup AND skating for an audience that is predominantly adult. The girl "performing" for the adult is bothers me.

    - On one hand, I see and sort of agree with those who say Katrina is a role model for little girls. Hence, she should not have posed for Playboy. On the other hand, society has certain expectations about women. What Katrina did is no different from those who do beauty pageants and contests. Maybe the word "playboy" is the problem.

    - first we should deal with the stereotypes and sexism in society or whatever seems to cause girls, boys, women and men to behave the way they do before telling the 12 yr old to dress a certain way. The problem is outside the rink.

  15. #45
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    Re: My 2 cents contribution to this topic

    Originally posted by bleuchick
    I have a problem with a 12 yrs old girl all made up with pretty makeup AND skating for an audience that is predominantly adult. The girl "performing" for the adult is bothers me.

    I'm always shocked when I see this type of comment. As someone who spends over 9 months of the year in rinks both for practice, tests and competitions.

    I see these 12 year old girls as amazing athletes, not performers. And on 99% of the competitors, I see only enough make-up to stop the incredible wash-out from the white ice. And costuming that is more often than not, good looking enough to get the job done. Are you in Canada bleuchick? ( I don't know, but your username makes me think you might be) If you are, please review last year's Jr. Nationals and let me know which skaters you think fit this "beauty pagent" image you seem to have.

    Every once in a while, at a club comp, one very young (7 or 8 year old) little girl shows up, dressed and made-up to the nines, but these are the type of skaters who you generally don't see at the competitions the next year as they (or their parents) realize that to advance in skating takes hard, serious work, commitment, and athleticism. Not looking good.

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