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Thread: 2008-2009 Programs by Discipline

  1. #76
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lmarie086 View Post
    Here are some more that I read about at fsuniverse

    Kiira Korpi's new long program: "Agatha" by Kerkko Koskinen
    Laura Lepistö's new short program: music by Karl Jenkins
    Jenni Vähämaa's new long program: West Side Story, "an unusual version"
    Susanna Pöykiö: can resume training on ice next week, plans to have a new short program if there is enough time

    I wonder what they mean by an "unusual version" of West Side Story.
    I am SO SO happy somebody is skating to Karl Jenkins.

    As for "an unusual version of West Side Story", it seems that most skaters have different versions. Nobody chooses the traditional versions from the movie.

  2. #77
    Ice Dancing and Johnny Fan MissIzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    I am SO SO happy somebody is skating to Karl Jenkins.
    Me too, but the question is, is it one of his "vocals as instrument" pieces? Sure, Fumui Suguri got away with skating to one of those a couple of years ago, but it would still make her vulnerable to overzealous technical panels, methinks.

  3. #78
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissIzzy View Post
    Me too, but the question is, is it one of his "vocals as instrument" pieces? Sure, Fumui Suguri got away with skating to one of those a couple of years ago, but it would still make her vulnerable to overzealous technical panels, methinks.
    That's a good point. But I really hope what happened to Joubert at Worlds will not cause skaters to abandon vocal music completely. We need more musical variety, not less!

  4. #79
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    That's a good point. But I really hope what happened to Joubert at Worlds will not cause skaters to abandon vocal music completely. We need more musical variety, not less!
    In all fairness Joubert used music with vocal lyrics, it was definitely not the voice used as an instrument.

    Ant

  5. #80
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb
    In all fairness Joubert used music with vocal lyrics, it was definitely not the voice used as an instrument.
    I'm not sure why you state that as though it's fact. It didn't sound like there were lyrics to me, or to the judges at Skate Canada, French Nats and Europeans. Why would Joubert, J.C. Simond and Kurt Browning knowingly break the rules? And surely the French federation would have tried to avoid this problem if it was as obvious as you suggest?

    I think in a situation like that, a skater should be given the benefit of the doubt unless it's really glaring. Maybe there can be some way to certify music at the start of the season - waiting until Worlds to stick him with a deduction was unfair.
    Last edited by Buttercup; 06-06-2008 at 06:28 AM.

  6. #81
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    I'm not sure why you state that as though it's fact. It didn't sound like there were lyrics to me, or to the judges at Skate Canada, French Nats and Europeans. Why would Joubert, J.C. Simond and Kurt Browning knowingly break the rules? And surely the French federation would have tried to avoid this problem if it was as obvious as you suggest?

    I think in a situation like that, a skater should be given the benefit of the doubt unless it's really glaring. Maybe there can be some way to certify music at the start of the season - waiting until Worlds to stick him with a deduction was unfair.
    Because if you listen to the music it has words being sung on it. It is very obvious. Worlds was the only time i saw the performance and all the way through i was complaining that he was using music with vocal lyrics in it. If anything the judges at previous competitions should be sanctioned for not enforcing the rule. I suspect that like most things go, on the GP he was given the benefit if the doubt that skaters who are out of the top 10 at worlds would not get.

    Ant

  7. #82
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Because if you listen to the music it has words being sung on it. It is very obvious. Worlds was the only time i saw the performance and all the way through i was complaining that he was using music with vocal lyrics in it.
    Again, Ant, this was obvious to you - not to the skater, his coaching team, his federation, and the judging panel in each of his competitions prior to Worlds - including Europeans. When the deduction came up at Worlds, there were many who were confused by the explanation. You may have been complaining that he had lyrics - others were complaining that he was punished despite NOT having lyrics. This was not a clear-cut situation as you try to paint it. As often happens in figure skating, it's your opinion, not an undisputed fact.

    Personally, I disagree that it's "obviously" lyrics. It's obviously vocals - beyond that it's hard to discern; I've watched the program more than once, my hearing's fine, and I can't tell for sure - though as my posts make clear, I'm leaning towards no lyrics. I would like to believe that the people involved were smart and fair enough not to violate known ISU regulations - and really why would anyone choose to disregard such a rule on purpose? What advantage could it possibly give the skater?

    I still believe that all skaters should be given the benefit of the doubt in this type of situation - whether they are top 10 or not. Regardless, there needs to be some mechanism for clearing music for competitions. Surely the ISU, with its love of micromanaging every aspect of the performances these days, can handle this? And finally, getting back to my original point: overzealous application of the rules without giving the benefit of the doubt may lead skaters to make less varied music choices. Which would be bad.

  8. #83
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by lmarie086 View Post
    Here are some more that I read about at fsuniverse

    Kiira Korpi's new long program: "Agatha" by Kerkko Koskinen
    Laura Lepistö's new short program: music by Karl Jenkins
    Jenni Vähämaa's new long program: West Side Story, "an unusual version"
    Susanna Pöykiö: can resume training on ice next week, plans to have a new short program if there is enough time

    I wonder what they mean by an "unusual version" of West Side Story.
    Thanks for your sharing!

    I really like the four finnish girls.

  9. #84
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Again, Ant, this was obvious to you - not to the skater, his coaching team, his federation, and the judging panel in each of his competitions prior to Worlds - including Europeans. When the deduction came up at Worlds, there were many who were confused by the explanation. You may have been complaining that he had lyrics - others were complaining that he was punished despite NOT having lyrics. This was not a clear-cut situation as you try to paint it. As often happens in figure skating, it's your opinion, not an undisputed fact.

    Personally, I disagree that it's "obviously" lyrics. It's obviously vocals - beyond that it's hard to discern; I've watched the program more than once, my hearing's fine, and I can't tell for sure - though as my posts make clear, I'm leaning towards no lyrics. I would like to believe that the people involved were smart and fair enough not to violate known ISU regulations - and really why would anyone choose to disregard such a rule on purpose? What advantage could it possibly give the skater?

    I still believe that all skaters should be given the benefit of the doubt in this type of situation - whether they are top 10 or not. Regardless, there needs to be some mechanism for clearing music for competitions. Surely the ISU, with its love of micromanaging every aspect of the performances these days, can handle this? And finally, getting back to my original point: overzealous application of the rules without giving the benefit of the doubt may lead skaters to make less varied music choices. Which would be bad.
    Opinions are opinions and facts are fact. The existance of words being sung by a voice on a piece of music is fact not an opinion. From memory Joubert's team have groused about the lack of deduction in any previous competitions, there has been no denial that there were lyrics in the music. Joubert's team either thought it was worth the risk or were plain and simply stupid to use music with lyrics. I strongly believe that the deduction at worlds was well deserved and that the rule should have been applied properly at the start of the season so that Joubert and his team could have done something about it before worlds. In any event it didn't and wouldn't have changed the results everything else being equal.

    Ant

  10. #85
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    1. The Finnish ladies - I would love to see Susanna Pöykiö make a successful comeback, and it would be great if she has the time to train at least one new program. She's lovely to watch. I would also be happy to see Kiira Korpi bounce back from what had to have been a very disappointing Worlds. I'm not sold on Laura Lepisto and haven't seen Vähämaa enough times to form an opinion.

    2. I wonder what Stephane Lambiel will come up with, seeing as he's changing coaching teams. And if Plushy does make his rumored comeback, please don't let it be with that Eurovision song, instrumental or as an exhibition.

    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Opinions are opinions and facts are fact. The existance of words being sung by a voice on a piece of music is fact not an opinion. From memory Joubert's team have groused about the lack of deduction in any previous competitions, there has been no denial that there were lyrics in the music. Joubert's team either thought it was worth the risk or were plain and simply stupid to use music with lyrics. Ant
    The existence of words in this case is subject to perception, as could be seen from from the lack of deductions in prior competitions. Why is the judgement that there were lyrics "fact" and the more frequent call that there were no lyrics "not fact"?

    You clearly want to believe that Joubert and his team behaved stupidly and willfully broke the rules. Both are your own interpretations. Worth the risk? It's not like going for a big jump and falling; there is no advantage in having lyrics in your music.

    I am not going to revisit this issue. I am sorry for the threadjacking; it was not my original intention to do so. I hope to see skaters using vocals as instruments again in 2009 and to have them receive no deductions for it.

  11. #86
    Sitting Here on Blue Jay Way silver.blades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Opinions are opinions and facts are fact. The existance of words being sung by a voice on a piece of music is fact not an opinion. From memory Joubert's team have groused about the lack of deduction in any previous competitions, there has been no denial that there were lyrics in the music. Joubert's team either thought it was worth the risk or were plain and simply stupid to use music with lyrics. I strongly believe that the deduction at worlds was well deserved and that the rule should have been applied properly at the start of the season so that Joubert and his team could have done something about it before worlds. In any event it didn't and wouldn't have changed the results everything else being equal.

    Ant
    Yes but it's a fact that Lambiel's LP had lyrics as well, and his were much more noticable than Jouberts, so why no deduction for him?

  12. #87
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    Chinese skaters

    Some news:

    Pang & Tong have finished their choreography. They will have two new programs next season. The short program is blues style music, choreographed by Sarah Kawahara. The long program is a mixture of tango, and lyrics music, done by Morozov.

    Zhang & Zhang are working with Shpilband VS Zueva on a new long program, together with two Chinese ice dancing teams.

  13. #88
    Resident Chinese pair nerd
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    Quote Originally Posted by chnfs View Post
    Some news:

    Pang & Tong have finished their choreography. They will have two new programs next season. The short program is blues style music, choreographed by Sarah Kawahara. The long program is a mixture of tango, and lyrics music, done by Morozov.

    Zhang & Zhang are working with Shpilband VS Zueva on a new long program, together with two Chinese ice dancing teams.
    Zhang Squared with Igor and Marina? Wow, I can't wait to see how that turns out! I never thought of them as very dancey but maybe they can bring out those qualities in them. Should be interesting.

    I might be in the minority but I liked P and T's Romeo and Juliet last season. As much as Morozov give me hives, he does come up with decent choreography. I"m curious to hear the music, tango with lyrics? Oh please tell me it's not Cell Block Tango! Pop Squish Cicero Yao Bin! Seriously though, lyrics aren't allowed and I don't understand the difference between "the voice as an instrument" and someone saying words. To me, it all sounds like a type of lyric. I'd hate to think Morozov was setting them up for a vocal deduction.

    On the other hand, I've always liked Kawahara's work. I can't wait to see their short.

  14. #89
    Figure Skater Music Editor singerskates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    I am SO SO happy somebody is skating to Karl Jenkins.

    As for "an unusual version of West Side Story", it seems that most skaters have different versions. Nobody chooses the traditional versions from the movie.
    I know why. The reason skaters don't skate to the original move soundtrack is because there isn't much of the music without words. There's singing throughout most of it. So music editors have to search for versions of the music that were recorded without words.

    How do I know? First of all I edit music for figure skaters and secondly, I just skated to West Side Story last year. My version was just piano, violin and once and a while there were drums. Not all movie soundtracks are equal with having enough music that has no vocals. And stripping the vocals out of pieces usually takes all of the melody out.

  15. #90
    Vancouver 2010, 247.23, Bronze
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Opinions are opinions and facts are fact. The existance of words being sung by a voice on a piece of music is fact not an opinion.
    What did the lyrics say?

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