ISU Communication 1494 | Golden Skate

ISU Communication 1494

Medusa

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
They increased the value for the Quads - but also increased the deductions for a fall! Yes! So a fall on a Quad is only worth a triple toe now -- this is an improvement. I like the fact that they also increased the value of the 3 Axel.
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
I actually don't know what this communication is. I thought that they were going to have a big conference in June. But this preceeds it in timing. Does anyone know why?
 

Wrlmy

Medalist
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
I actually don't know what this communication is. I thought that they were going to have a big conference in June. But this preceeds it in timing. Does anyone know why?

I don't know for sure, but it certainly gives skaters and coaches time to adjust to the changes made. I don't know how I feel about this change, but it certainly addresses two biggest issues that came up after worlds. Rewarding difficult elements and punishing sloppily done elements. I'm nervous for Kawaguchi&Smirnov. Their throw quad salchow is not exactly clean...
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Thanks for the link, Bennett.

hmmm. A quad throw Lutz. Will we ever see that?

It does take a lot of musings on these items. And so much of those Levels are just so much subjective.

I'll read more intensely over the weekend which looks like I have nothing better to do.

Joe
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
For guys, getting 3A and quads done would become even more crucial than before.

I am a bit dissaponted that the double penalty on downgrade is not really solved.

I am very, very happy to see that they increased the base value for level-3 and -4 steps except for spirals. Only I hope that there will be more skaters who get level-4!
 

daisies

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
I, too, love that they are increasing the value of steps and also that they are adding a "simple variety" aspect to steps in order to get a level 2. Previously you had to have "variety" to get anything over level 1, and now that "variety" is the basis for a level 3.

I also like that they are recognizing that a camel is harder than a sit and that a sit is harder than an upright.... and similarly that a flying sit is harder than a flying camel.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Do they request skater and/or coach feedback to make these changes?
 

gourry

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Wow. This... is.... very difficult to interpret for me.
There are several things I don't get clearly.:frown:
Hopefully someone else here can give me some light...

About jumps, what does 'poor take-off' mean? Is this about two-footed take-off? Or pre-rotation? Or something else?

About spiral, 'holding spiral position without interruption for 6 or more sec' means holding 'one' spiral position for 6 sec? And they still have to do 3 positions? Is this going to make spiral sequences longer?
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
i am glad to hear they made the base points greater for the quad. evan and brian must be happy.
 

fumie_fumie

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Wow. This... is.... very difficult to interpret for me.
There are several things I don't get clearly.:frown:
Hopefully someone else here can give me some light...

About jumps, what does 'poor take-off' mean? Is this about two-footed take-off? Or pre-rotation? Or something else?

About spiral, 'holding spiral position without interruption for 6 or more sec' means holding 'one' spiral position for 6 sec? And they still have to do 3 positions? Is this going to make spiral sequences longer?

Same here.

I don't quite get what they mean by deduction on a long preparation for jumps. How are they going to quantify a "long preparation"? 1 second of telegraphing can be qualified as a long preparation, whereas 0'59'' is not? You can almost start a consulting business on CoP.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I think Carolina Kostner should be penalized for her long entrances into some of her jumps. She travels almost the length of the rink on setups.
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
yeah, caro's jumps have pretty long preparation.
Consulting business on CoP. Great idea:clap::clap::clap: If the skaters are willing to pay a choreographer like $10,000, they should get a consultant with CoP, too!
 

merrybari

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Holy smokes!! It's a good thing they DID do it before the summer meeting to give the skaters teams a chance to figure it all out. You need to have a PhD in math to keep track. Not only do the skaters have to DO the moves, now they have an even more detailed list of WHAT to do.

Glad all I have to do is watch. :biggrin:

Anywhere in there did anyone notice if they've reduced the required number of jumps and/or other elements to give the skaters time to be more "creative" in the programs?
 

enlight78

Medalist
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Wow. This... is.... very difficult to interpret for me.
There are several things I don't get clearly.:frown:
Hopefully someone else here can give me some light...

About jumps, what does 'poor take-off' mean? Is this about two-footed take-off? Or pre-rotation? Or something else?

About spiral, 'holding spiral position without interruption for 6 or more sec' means holding 'one' spiral position for 6 sec? And they still have to do 3 positions? Is this going to make spiral sequences longer?

I don't know about the jumps but a change of edge spiral is technically 6 seconds also. a 3 sec hold before and a 3 sec hold after the change. So I just think this give skaters more options to get higher levels so we won't be watching the same spiral over and over.. In general I believe the length is about the same.
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Holy smokes!! It's a good thing they DID do it before the summer meeting to give the skaters teams a chance to figure it all out. You need to have a PhD in math to keep track. Not only do the skaters have to DO the moves, now they have an even more detailed list of WHAT to do.

Glad all I have to do is watch. :biggrin:

ITA!

When I review old protocols, I am surprised that the top skaters used to get very low levels, filled with level 1's and 2's. But they have much better levels now. Every time they change, it takes some time to learn what's going on and those who learn quickly have an advantage.

My theory is that CoP is for ppl who are detail-oriented, analytically skilled, and those who can calmly count.

There are some ppl who seem to have never skated but somehow absolutely LOVE to study CoP. To my surprise, some could even analyze complicated step sequences despite the lack of experience. Some of my friends who are doing PhD in math say that some mathmaticians go into gambling or poker for their pasttime. I could imagine some of them perhaps liking CoP. It's like a game that gives you some mental exercise for pleasure and it's getting more and more challenging lately. Perhaps they should hire someone like that.
 
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PolymerBob

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Is an underrotated triple still worth less than a clean double? If so, they still have some work to do. :eek:hwell:
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
For guys, getting 3A and quads done would become even more crucial than before.

I am a bit dissaponted that the double penalty on downgrade is not really solved.

I am very, very happy to see that they increased the base value for level-3 and -4 steps except for spirals. Only I hope that there will be more skaters who get level-4!
Bennett, didn't you mention a while ago that GOEs are 50% lower unless step sequences are level 4? Because it looks like now level 3 and 4 GOEs are the same - so even if level 4s are rarely awarded, at least the GOEs will make more sense. But they still emphasize upper body movement, ugh. :scowl:

Quad Axel, 13.3 points. Does anyone anticipate seeing one anytime soon? :biggrin:
 

Skye

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Bennett, didn't you mention a while ago that GOEs are 50% lower unless step sequences are level 4? Because it looks like now level 3 and 4 GOEs are the same - so even if level 4s are rarely awarded, at least the GOEs will make more sense. But they still emphasize upper body movement, ugh. :scowl:

Quad Axel, 13.3 points. Does anyone anticipate seeing one anytime soon? :biggrin:

GOE for steps have not been changed at all; only the Base Value for LV3 and LV4 have been adjusted.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Same here.

I don't quite get what they mean by deduction on a long preparation for jumps. How are they going to quantify a "long preparation"? 1 second of telegraphing can be qualified as a long preparation, whereas 0'59'' is not? You can almost start a consulting business on CoP.
Although it's ruining the choreo, and the presentation in general, the 'long preparation' does give the judges (and the Tech Spec an easier look for a wrong edge take off.

Depending on the music, the 'long preparation' may be justified.

Joe
 
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