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Thread: Kentucky Derby today

  1. #1
    Custom Title Johar's Avatar
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    Kentucky Derby today

    Is anyone watching this great sporting even besides me?

    Post Position--Horse--Jockey--Morning Line Odds (will change by post time)

    1. Cool Coal Man ...Julien Leparoux 20-1
    2. Tale Of Ekati... Eibar Coa 15-1
    3. Anak Nakal... Rafael Bejarano 30-1
    4. Court Vision... Garrett Gomez 20-1
    5. Eight Belles... Gabriel Saez 20-1
    6. Z Fortune... Robby Albarado 15-1
    7. Big Truck... Javier Castellano 50-1
    8. Visionaire... Jose Lezcano 20-1
    9. Pyro... Shaun Bridgmohan 6-1
    10. Colonel John... Corey Nakatani 4-1
    11. Z Humor... Renee Douglas 30-1
    12. Smooth Air... Manoel Cruz 20-1
    13. Bob Black Jack... Richard Migliore 20-1
    14. Monba... Ramon Dominguez 15-1
    15. Adriano... Edgar Prado 30-1
    16. Denis Of Cork... Calvin Borel 20-1
    17. Cowboy Cal... John Velazquez 20-1
    18. Recapturetheglory... E.T. Baird 20-1
    19. Gayego... Mike Smith 15-1
    20. Big Brown... Kent Desormeaux 3-1

    Big Brown will probably be the favorite, his horrible (the farther out you are, the more of a disadvantage you have) post position notwithstanding
    Last edited by Johar; 05-03-2008 at 02:31 PM.

  2. #2
    Blue Angel pennyfromheaven's Avatar
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    Sorry I missed it!

  3. #3
    Blue Angel pennyfromheaven's Avatar
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    Oh geez I just watched it online and that is so sad about that horse Eight Belles breaking both ankles and having to be euthanized right on the track! That's horrible! The horse that won, Big Brown is really a gorgeous horse and ran a fantastic race.

  4. #4
    Gotta Have Music iluvtodd's Avatar
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    Great race for Big Brown, but I'm feeling very sad for Eight Belles.

  5. #5
    Arm Chair Skate Fan show 42's Avatar
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    Heartbreaker for Eight Belles.......explain to me why a pricey race horse can't be saved with broken ankels? Don't they suspend them in a harness while the legs are healing? Thanks..........42

  6. #6
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    The biggest reason they decided to euthanize Eight Belles is because a horse carries most of its body weight on its front legs, whether its standing or moving. Those legs and hooves are suprisingly complex mechanisms. The animal would have great difficulty supporting its own body weight after the injury had healed. I'm guessing by what was written up in the press this morning that both front fetlocks/ankles were pretty much shattered. From what I know from the 35 years I spent riding and training horses as a professional, it would be only an act of God for them to heal enough to allow that filly to live a comfortable life as a brood mare. In Barbaro's case his injury was to a back leg which is not a prime weight-bearing limb. His case didn't go sour until both front legs were compromised with laminitis and he was put down for that reason, along with the fact that the front legs carrying most of the body weight. In Eight Belles' case it would have been inhumane to have tried to save her.

  7. #7
    Arm Chair Skate Fan show 42's Avatar
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    Thanks Blue Bead for the info.......so even if the breaks were clean, she wouldn't have had a chance? Sorry, I know zero about horses....... 42

  8. #8
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    Not necessarily, show 42, regarding had it been a clean break. It would depend upon where on the fetlock/ankle the break occured. It would be a whole lot more likely the filly would have been salvagable if the breaks were just above the fetlock joints as the leg bone is thicker (stronger) there. It's tough to say just what an owner would decide to do if a horse had broken the joint just above and joint. That's a rough call; there's a lot of issues to be weighed in that decision. If the clean break is below the joint it would probably be possible to support it with a pin and plate to hold the area together until it healed. The question is whether the filly or mare would be sound enough to handle the increased weight bearing of pregnancy after the healing was complete. That's the most plausible use for an expensive, injured mare. If I were the owner I wouldn't want to chance it that she'd be okay.

    The thing of it is, this is an extremely unusual situation where a horse breaks down after the race at the quarter mile mark with such an extensive injury; there isn't much information out there on how successful any healing might be. She couldn't stand up at all so the track veterinarians had no way to stabilize her legs for transport into the mobile vet lab which would have taken her to a large animal veterinary facility.

  9. #9
    Blue Angel pennyfromheaven's Avatar
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    So why would something like that happen to a horse?

  10. #10
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    So why would something like that happen to a horse?
    That's really hard to say. It could be due to a lot of things. It could be due to nothing and just be a freak occurance. My area of expertise is not thoroughbred racing but my guess would be it is due to the nature of the relatively fine bone structure of the thoroughbred lower leg as compared to, say, a Quarter horse or a Morgan. Generally both of them are of fairly sturdy bone structures while thoroughbred legs don't have as much circumference in their leg bones, even though the bone is fairly dense. It could also be due, in part, to the horse's genetics, the filly's blood line which I know nothing about because I haven't researched her lineage. It could be a training issue, over training to be exact--too much stress too soon between races. It could be anything.

    No one will know for sure until a post mortem is performed on the horse. This I assume will be done since there is so much question as to how this happened and what the exact extent of the injuries were. The owner will want to know for sure, as will the trainer, to rule out a variety of possibilities. The results of that will probably come to light in a few weeks in the racing industry trade publications.

  11. #11
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I've been reading from other sources that it's due to the way the horses are bred and that they don't mature until age 4 or 5... I've been reading arguments that no horse should race until age 4 due to the way they have been bred...they're not the same as horses from decades ago...

  12. #12
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    I've been reading from other sources that it's due to the way the horses are bred and that they don't mature until age 4 or 5
    That is certainly true in a lot of respects but this is not necessarily a new situation. It's always been true that young horses don't mature until 4 years old, and some aren't considered mature until nearly 5 years. This is particularly true of the larger breeds and quite a few European breeds. One of the factors is that the way these young race horses are trained has changed considerably from what it was 40 to 50 years ago when injuries like that of Eight Belles would have been unusual if they occured . In addition the bloodlines have been selectively adjusted to produce speedier bloodstock. The resultant speeder horses don't always develop as having the body improvements to go along with the genetics which produces the ability to gallop faster and over longer distances..

  13. #13
    Ballroom Baby
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    My guess is it's the Northern Dancer/Mr. Prospector nick, as has been speculated before. They aren't producing horses with any stamina (they've dumbed down the Gold Cup to 11/2 miles and the horses are struggling with 1 1/4.) This is all with cushier tracks and rarely being asked to carry any significant weight, not like the old days. They also don't race nearly as often as horses once did. There's something going on besides training, because if anything that's lighter, and surfaces, which are better.

    With both legs breaking, I can't see a clean break versus a shatter making much difference. She still couldn't have gotten up. One foreleg, maybe, but both? I can't see any humane way of treating that.

    Of course Big Brown is dripping with Northern Dancer, so if he wins the TC the situation is unlikely to improve. Of course I doubt he will and the fact no one's done it in thirty years should be a big clue to the industry as to why.

    I also disagree and have all along that attempting to save Barbaro was a reasonable risk. While the hind leg isn't AS important, it was a severe enough injury he would certainly never have been sound for live cover breeding (making him worthless as a racing TB sire, not that anyone with half a brain would send their mare to a horse who snapped a leg, though they'd have done it, you can bet), and probably he would never have been able to be turned out even. That's a life of hand-walking and standing in the stall. And even standing in the stall can be dangerous if a horse starts kicking (unless you believe the life insurance conspiracy theories, that's what killed Alydar.) With such a serious fracture, even if it ever healed, what kind of life was that?

  14. #14
    Custom Title Johar's Avatar
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    It was such a freak thing to have happen.

    Horses also don't tolerate being in a sling very long and often infections set in, like in Barbaro's case. In his case no bone came through the break. With Eight Belles, bone came through and the wound site was immediately contaminated. It was the most humane thing they could've done.

    Someone on another board I post at has a personal connection to the horse. All the connections are devestated.

    BTW, Eight Belles is by Unbridled's Song, who has sired some very unsound offspring.
    Last edited by Tonichelle; 05-05-2008 at 03:39 PM. Reason: merging

  15. #15
    bugs are smarter than we are bronxgirl's Avatar
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    A quote from a NYTimes essay notes that Unbridled offsprings are "unsound and fearless". A potentially tragic combination for any horse. RIP Eight Belles

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