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Thread: One foot Axel-Salchow Combination

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    One foot Axel-Salchow Combination

    I was wondering how this combination/jump would be evaluated by the new point system (a personal favorite jump of mine).

    The one-foot axle-Triple Salchow combo. This is different from D-axle - h/lp - T.Salchow or Toes that we see, as there is no step in between the two jumps. It's actually quite difficult, because if u get off balance from the axle, it's set-up for failure for the Salchow.

    This is a combination that Jilly Trenary and Krisztina Cacko used commonly.

    So if a skater did this combination (crossing my fingers...), how would it be judge?

    Single Axle - Triple Salchow Combo? Or a Triple Salchow with difficult entrance?

    watch Jill Trenary do this combo, though not perfect, it's a great combo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFxBg...eature=related

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    Quote Originally Posted by TtonyV7 View Post
    So if a skater did this combination (crossing my fingers...), how would it be judge?

    Single Axle - Triple Salchow Combo? Or a Triple Salchow with difficult entrance?
    The technical panel would identify it as 1A+3S and the base value would be the sum of those two jumps.

    Judges could reward it in the GOE or keep it in mind under some of the components as they thought appropriate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    The technical panel would identify it as 1A+3S and the base value would be the sum of those two jumps.

    Judges could reward it in the GOE or keep it in mind under some of the components as they thought appropriate.
    The problem is that the one foot axel is not listed on the standard list of jumps. So the one-foot axel / triple sal combination would just be listed as a triple salchow. The skater would only get extra credit for a difficult entrance on the GOE of the element. As there are much easier ways to get credit in the GOE for a difficult entrance to the salchow, skaters would not use this very risky method.

    It is sad that the new judging system eliminates several valid jumps from credit.
    I would love to see walleys, toeless lutzes, inside axels and one foot axels count for something. There also were one foot salchows at a time too.
    Last edited by nadster; 05-05-2008 at 02:11 AM.

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    There are not many ways one can do a major jump and land on a back inside edge to accommodate a combo which takes off on a back inside edge. The half loop is just that, a half of a loop. I see no reason why the jumpers of today could not do a double one foot axel into a 3Flip. Wow. Alas, the ISU ruled out many musical jumps.

    (Aside - I'm not familiar with her skating. She seemed to have quite an aggressive style. This is the style Ashley Wagner must follow, imo. btw, did Ms Trenary win that Worlds?)

    Joe

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    Tripping on the Podium
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    Joe Jill was a very fast, aggressive and at the same time elegant skater. I was a big fan at the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nadster View Post
    The problem is that the one foot axel is not listed on the standard list of jumps. So the one-foot axel / triple sal combination would just be listed as a triple salchow.
    I've seen one-foot axels listed as 1A on protocol sheets at club competitions. Emily Hughes had a one-foot axel-triple salchow combo planned in her 2005 Junior Worlds qualifying FS but popped the sal and it was listed on the protocol as 1A+1S (just checked).

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    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    1 foot Axel is a LISTED Axel type jump that lands on the other foot. The only full rotation or higher "standard" jump that gets put in the unlisted jump category is the 1/2 loop. (I consider a walley a non-standard jump.)

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    Is a half-loop OK as a connecting step in a sequence?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    1 foot Axel is a LISTED Axel type jump that lands on the other foot. The only full rotation or higher "standard" jump that gets put in the unlisted jump category is the 1/2 loop. (I consider a walley a non-standard jump.)
    I was under the impression that a 1 ft Axel has no base value nor does doubling or trippling it. Does it have any base value?

    I remember reading someone's post saying that 1ftAs and inside As may be used as part of footwork.

    Seems to me these back inside landings are tricky and maybe only few skaters (think Kurt) can work them into footwork safely.

    Can't think of a reason for not considering a Wally a standard jump? a salchow takes off on a bi edge, why not an inverted lutz?

    Joe
    Last edited by Joesitz; 05-05-2008 at 08:10 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Is a half-loop OK as a connecting step in a sequence?
    Yes, it's used quite often.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I was under the impression that a 1 ft Axel has no base value nor does doubling or trippling it. Does it have any base value?
    Yes, a one-foot Axel is counted as a regular Axel in base value.

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    A 1A+3S combo would be a losing proposition in the IJS anyway. A single Axel (regular or one-foot) has a base value of only 0.8. That's all the extra points you get, compared to just doing a 3S by itself.

    The down side is, it uses up one of your 3 allowed combos. If you waste one of your combos for a measely 0.8 points, then you have to drop, say, your 3Lz+2T or your 3F+3T, or your 3F+2Lo+2Lo -- huge point-getters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    A 1A+3S combo would be a losing proposition in the IJS anyway.
    Right, which is why they're not being done in high/elite-level competition anymore...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    There are not many ways one can do a major jump and land on a back inside edge to accommodate a combo which takes off on a back inside edge. The half loop is just that, a half of a loop. I see no reason why the jumpers of today could not do a double one foot axel into a 3Flip. Wow. Alas, the ISU ruled out many musical jumps.

    (Aside - I'm not familiar with her skating. She seemed to have quite an aggressive style. This is the style Ashley Wagner must follow, imo. btw, did Ms Trenary win that Worlds?)

    Joe
    Joe - I didn't see where anyone had responded to your question about Jill Trenary - she was US Champ in 87, 89 & 90 (2nd in 88) and World Champ in 90. She won a bronze at Worlds in 89 also - I loved her skating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    A 1A+3S combo would be a losing proposition in the IJS anyway. A single Axel (regular or one-foot) has a base value of only 0.8. That's all the extra points you get, compared to just doing a 3S by itself.

    The down side is, it uses up one of your 3 allowed combos. If you waste one of your combos for a measely 0.8 points, then you have to drop, say, your 3Lz+2T or your 3F+3T, or your 3F+2Lo+2Lo -- huge point-getters.
    Yeah, I kind of figured that despite the fact that landing on a back inside edge is not so easy. Never understood thse base values anyway. Who decided what was difficult and what was not?

    Also on the down side is a loss of variety which was once there (think Trenary). Well, once we get to the Quint Lutz/Quad Loop, we will have some variety.

    KBell Thanks for the info. I would love to have seen her skate the comps.

    Joe

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    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Inside Axels are transition moves for whoever asked that question but one foot Axels count (if you read deep in the rules, it states that a skater can land on either foot except the loop, which is counted as a 1/2 loop and called a transition element, for it to receive its call and BV. Also, an Axel is defined as a jump that takes off forward from the outside edge.)

    A one foot Axel gets the same numer of points as a single Axel. That's "fair" if you look at the point system as it is - it is "as difficult" as a single Axel.

    Unless you are at a much lower level (like Juvenile where 2As are rare), it's not worth the lack of points to do it. Even a 2T is worth 1/2 a point more than an Axel.

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