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Thread: Janet Lynn keynote at Gov council

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    Rinkside
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    Janet Lynn keynote at Gov council

    Janet Lynn's keynote address (close to an hour in length) is up on the video-archive at icenetwork.

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    The burr up Speedy's Butt! visaliakid's Avatar
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    I have searched the entire site... including all of the Video Archives and have not found Janet Lynn's Keynote speech listed anywhere. Maybe it was up and taken down for some reason?

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    Rinkside
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    Yes, it's no longer there. I was only able to listen to the first few minutes and then was hoping to come back to it, but no luck.

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    Sestriere 1999 ChrisH's Avatar
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    There is discussion at FSU about Janet Lynn's speech being removed from the icenetwork video archive.

    A text of her speech can be found at:
    http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/curre...n%20speach.htm
    Last edited by ChrisH; 07-01-2008 at 03:18 PM.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    From what I have read, the controversy centers on whether the USFSA censored and deliberately suppressed Janet Lynn's remarks because they were not very flattering to the direction that figure skating seems to be headed these days.

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    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    It is strange that she would praise school figures, since they often held her back. However, I have found new respect for Janet Lynn for speaking her mind. It matters not whether I agree or disagree with Janet, but that she spoke her mind.

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    Wow. What an incredibly moving speech, full of imagery and memory. It remains to be seen if her voice will be fully heard, but I for one feel I better understand the sport having read her words.

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    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue dog View Post
    It is strange that she would praise school figures, since they often held her back.
    Not really, she had the bad luck to hit her competitive peak when the best figures skater, as opposed to figure skater, was hitting her peak, but overall it was her own competition nerves that held her back more, both in figures and free skating.

    And IIRC hardly any skaters who had competed in the figures era were in favor of just junking them entirely. Even Cousins, who hated doing them in competition seemed to think they were necessary for proper training.

    Dumping figures was largely driven by countries with very weak skating programs who lacked the resources to properly train them and thought if they didn't have to worry about them, then they'd maybe start winning some medals. And that's kind of what happened - the fourth year after figures were dumped, there was an OGM who had never even heard of a bracket turn (and some people who were actually surprised when she 'lost' her technique).

  9. #9
    On the Ice
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    Well, I don't know the term for bracket turn in Russian... I wouldn't expect Russian speakers (don't know that Baiul knows Ukrainian) to know it in English unless they were coaching English speakers, taking from English-speaking teacher, etc.

    Second, Baiul gained her jumps months before her 93 worlds win and kept them until her body changed. Viktor Kudriavtsev, described by Bute as someone who could "teach a monkey to do triple jumps" said girls should EXPECT to lose their jumps during their body changes and not worry about what happens during that year - possibly longer. The better their jump technique was prior to puberty, the more easily they'll regain the jumps.

    Janet Lynn isn't the only one who thinks lack of figures hurts overall development. Aleksei Urmanov has made similar comments about the general skating quality and level of young skaters today. They simply don't know the terms or the moves that he asks them to do. And it takes a long time to teach them.

    I Found Lynn's speech really interesting and illuminating. Her training environment seems a bit of an utopia, but nice that she had such a thing. It's not just figures that are lacking, but also a "group" approach to learning that seems more sensible to me than all this "individuals" lessons, which also seems to involve as a result a lot of unsupervised practice of difficult, dangerous things by skaters with less money to spend on individuals.

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    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maureend View Post
    Well, I don't know the term for bracket turn in Russian... I wouldn't expect Russian speakers (don't know that Baiul knows Ukrainian) to know it in English
    ...
    Viktor Kudriavtsev, ... said girls should EXPECT to lose their jumps during their body changes ... The better their jump technique was prior to puberty, the more easily they'll regain the jumps.
    First, I was making an oblique reference to a story told by Boitano - he was practicing bracket turns and post OGM Baiul (watching) didn't know what they were and couldn't do them when she tried (not surprising that she couldn't do them first time she tried, jaw droppingly shocking that she could win OGM without ever having to learn them).

    Second, the problem here is that skaters (esp young ladies) are under huge pressure to 'learn' multi-rotational jumps before they have the control of edges and turns they need to do them right. So they learn wonky technique that sort of works when they're built like stringbeans and weigh next to nothing (and have lax coaches and/or testers). Then they never can do the jumps reliably (or right) after puberty.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    Second, the problem here is that skaters (esp young ladies) are under huge pressure to 'learn' multi-rotational jumps before they have the control of edges and turns they need to do them right. So they learn wonky technique that sort of works when they're built like stringbeans and weigh next to nothing (and have lax coaches and/or testers). Then they never can do the jumps reliably (or right) after puberty.
    That is an excellent point. I handn't thought of it exactly like that before, but it makes sense.

    A scrawny 14-year-old can toss herself into the air any old way and get credit for a triple jump. Later on, it's technique, technique, technique.

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    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maureend View Post
    Well, I don't know the term for bracket turn in Russian... I wouldn't expect Russian speakers (don't know that Baiul knows Ukrainian) to know it in English unless they were coaching English speakers, taking from English-speaking teacher, etc.
    The word is "скобка" which translates as, surprisingly enough, "bracket"! (Not all elements translate so easily, for example the "rocker" is "крюк", which literally translates as a "hook".)

    Baiul does not speak Ukrainian. When she and Petrenko would speak to Ukrainian delegations, he'd have to bail her out by doing all the talking, since even though he is a Russian speaker, he at least knows Ukrainian.

  13. #13
    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptichka View Post
    The word is "скобка" which translates as, surprisingly enough, "bracket"! (Not all elements translate so easily, for example the "rocker" is "крюк", which literally translates as a "hook".)
    Cool! What about 3, counter, loop, paragraph and serpentine (or change as in change loop)? (seriously I love learning stuff like this)

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    Sestriere 1999 ChrisH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    Second, the problem here is that skaters (esp young ladies) are under huge pressure to 'learn' multi-rotational jumps before they have the control of edges and turns they need to do them right.
    This must be true as triples are worth approximately 3 times as much as doubles and I haven't seen any doubles get high GOEs.

    So they learn wonky technique that sort of works when they're built like stringbeans and weigh next to nothing (and have lax coaches and/or testers). Then they never can do the jumps reliably (or right) after puberty.
    Okay, but is figures the answer? From what admittedly little I've seen, retaining the wonky technique can be explained by lesser athleticism rather than by lesser training. And I think the "puberty monster" thing has been overstated by others. Look at the current biggest jumpers among the ladies: Yuna, Kostner, and Asada. Being taller is a good thing for skaters. The bad thing is being wider. To minimize the negatives of puberty I suspect that seeking a nutritionist rather than a figures coach would work better. Was Baiul's weaker jumping due to lesser athleticism or the lack of figures?

    I totally agree with Lynn about a greater need for gracefulness in figure skating. I agree with her that the emphasis on tricks leads to more injuries and hurts the long term health of the skaters. I would like to see skaters perform more events each year over many more years.
    Last edited by ChrisH; 07-02-2008 at 10:29 PM.

  15. #15
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    Cool! What about 3, counter, loop, paragraph and serpentine (or change as in change loop)? (seriously I love learning stuff like this)
    I've been working on a comprehensive list to help me (and perhaps others) with accurate translations. The link is here - http://ptichkafs.livejournal.com/31616.html. Please keep in mind, though, that it is totally a "work in progress".

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