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Thread: Janet Lynn keynote at Gov council

  1. #16
    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
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    болшое спасибо! *

    That's very cool! I've already bookmarked it. I like how 'change of edge' is a single word in Russian. I assume that Пере- is through, does -тяжка mean anything?


    * I hope that's right

  2. #17
    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisH View Post
    I haven't seen any doubles get high GOEs.
    Okay, but is figures the answer? From what admittedly little I've seen, retaining the wonky technique can be explained by lesser athleticism rather than by lesser training. ... Was Baiul's weaker jumping due to lesser athleticism or the lack of figures?
    That first point is so interesting. Theoretically it should be possible to do a beautiful double jump that would get positive GOE scores in reality judges (and the jump queens among the fans) seem to regard doubles as wasted jumping elements. A change I'd love to see would be to require at least one jumping pass in the LP have no more than two revolutions.

    Given the economic and time realities, figures are certainly not a cure-all but for most skaters they teach control of edges and turns better than anything else.

    One of Lynn's points (I have no idea if she's right or nuts) is that besides the skills they teach, figures are also good as a healthy warm-up (lots of skaters seem to agree with this) and in long-term muscle conditioning so that a figures trained skater is less likely to succumb to (non-accident related) injuries. In that light (if Lynn's right) Baiul's lesser athleticism is a direct result of not being trained in figures at all.

  3. #18
    Custom Title dwiggin3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    First, I was making an oblique reference to a story told by Boitano - he was practicing bracket turns and post OGM Baiul (watching) didn't know what they were and couldn't do them when she tried (not surprising that she couldn't do them first time she tried, jaw droppingly shocking that she could win OGM without ever having to learn them).

    Second, the problem here is that skaters (esp young ladies) are under huge pressure to 'learn' multi-rotational jumps before they have the control of edges and turns they need to do them right. So they learn wonky technique that sort of works when they're built like stringbeans and weigh next to nothing (and have lax coaches and/or testers). Then they never can do the jumps reliably (or right) after puberty.
    I could not have said this better. I was TERRIBLE at figures but it made me a better skater in the long run.

  4. #19
    Custom Title dwiggin3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    That first point is so interesting. Theoretically it should be possible to do a beautiful double jump that would get positive GOE scores in reality judges (and the jump queens among the fans) seem to regard doubles as wasted jumping elements. A change I'd love to see would be to require at least one jumping pass in the LP have no more than two revolutions.

    Given the economic and time realities, figures are certainly not a cure-all but for most skaters they teach control of edges and turns better than anything else.

    One of Lynn's points (I have no idea if she's right or nuts) is that besides the skills they teach, figures are also good as a healthy warm-up (lots of skaters seem to agree with this) and in long-term muscle conditioning so that a figures trained skater is less likely to succumb to (non-accident related) injuries. In that light (if Lynn's right) Baiul's lesser athleticism is a direct result of not being trained in figures at all.
    If you watch the warm ups of dance and mens/ladies, you will often see some of their positions and edges in basic stroking mimics that of figures. It's the same edge control, turns, brackets, loops, ect. that figures teaches. Additionally, when a skater makes an error in a program, often how well they recover (with exception to a fall flat on the rump) control of their body and blade can be corriated to their mastery of basic skating skills taught in figures. Every time I think of Sasha Cohen falling, it is so obvious that she did not take figures for any length of time if at all. I can just see it in her edges or lack thereof. I would contend though, that most people will not notice the intergration of figures into free unless they 1) spent years taking patch themselves and thus, can see as well as "feel" how the learned edge control helps or 2) happens to be a skating guru and possesses an uncanny knowledge of a sport they may/may not have actually competed in.

  5. #20
    Sestriere 1999 ChrisH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    Theoretically it should be possible to do a beautiful double jump that would get positive GOE scores in reality judges (and the jump queens among the fans) seem to regard doubles as wasted jumping elements. A change I'd love to see would be to require at least one jumping pass in the LP have no more than two revolutions.
    Except for the 2A which I occasionally forget is a double. Otherwise, the ladies usually tack on anemic 2T's and 2Lo's and the rare triple opened up to a double.

    At her FS winning performance at the NHK Trophy, Meier actually did a 2F and 2Lz. She also did a 3Lz and 3F. She got approximately the same score for a good 2F+2T with a 2nd half bonus as she got for a spinned out and one-hand down 3F. Both flips were off the wrong edge. A solid 2Lz got 0 GOEs across the board. With the current jump values, it's better to do a very messy triple rather than a good double.

    http://www.isufs.org/results/gpjpn07..._FS_Scores.pdf
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0GU-kWQNSA

    Is it obvious from Meier's skating that she has or has not done figures?

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