Coaches' proposals 4-9: Spins and steps | Golden Skate

Coaches' proposals 4-9: Spins and steps

Mafke

Medalist
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
For the past six months a group of international coaches have been developing a set of proposals for the improvement of the International Judging System (IJS). These proposals were recently submitted to the ISU Singles and Pairs Technical Committee.
4. Both in the short and free program one sequence of the competitor’s choice to be required.

The ladies may execute either step or spiral sequences, or a sequence that is a mixture of both steps and spiral positions. The men shall execute a step sequence in each program which can also include spirals and spread eagles ( see related item 9).

From now on, I'll have something about what the proposal is in the header.
 
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Mafke

Medalist
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Proposal # 5 Fewer spins in LP

5. Reduce the number of spins to be executed in the free program.

In the free program, three spins must be executed. One must be a spin combination with change of foot and change of position, one a flying spin and one a spin with only one position. If two spins with only one position are executed they must be in different basic positions.
 

Mafke

Medalist
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Proposal # 6 No more features

6. Abolish the use of "features" in spins and sequences, and use the Grade of Execution to reward added value in these elements.

It is proposed to abolish the use of "features" in spins and sequences, and assign only basic values for each element.

The elimination of "features" would have the following effects:

a) stimulate the creativity of the skaters

b) place emphasis on the basic qualities of the elements (speed, balance, beauty of positions, etc.) instead of simply achieving levels of difficulty at the expense of quality of the elements

c) reduce the risks of "personal interpretation" by the various Technical Panels in establishing the level of the elements

It will be the duty and the responsibility of the judges to establish with their GoE marks the extra value added by the skaters through their ability and creativity, such as: number of revolutions above the minimum required, new and original positions, speed, quality of a spin in general; use of complex turns, changes of skating or rotational direction in steps, speed, depth of the edges, extension of the free leg, etc.
 

Wrlmy

Medalist
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
But most ladies will elect to do a spiral sequence since i has a higher base value anyway. This proposal doesn't address weak positions and poor edge controls at all.
 

vlaurend

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
This is already on the ISU agenda for changes to be made in 2009, but I think the ISU's proposal is better than the coaches: Require only a spiral sequence OR step sequence in each program, but alternate them every other year (i.e., step in LP, spiral in SP for one year, then step in SP, spiral in LP for the next year)
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Whatever. Spirals have never gotten to me other than being well done and I place them in the same category of well executed spread eageles and ina bauers. They are pretty and can be well integrated into a routine, and not hanging out there as a special trick.

Joe
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
6. Abolish the use of "features" in spins and sequences, and use the Grade of Execution to reward added value in these elements.

It is proposed to abolish the use of "features" in spins and sequences, and assign only basic values for each element.

The elimination of "features" would have the following effects:

a) stimulate the creativity of the skaters

b) place emphasis on the basic qualities of the elements (speed, balance, beauty of positions, etc.) instead of simply achieving levels of difficulty at the expense of quality of the elements

c) reduce the risks of "personal interpretation" by the various Technical Panels in establishing the level of the elements

It will be the duty and the responsibility of the judges to establish with their GoE marks the extra value added by the skaters through their ability and creativity, such as: number of revolutions above the minimum required, new and original positions, speed, quality of a spin in general; use of complex turns, changes of skating or rotational direction in steps, speed, depth of the edges, extension of the free leg, etc.
Mafke - I'm not sure what 'features' are. Can you give an example?

How much more can the skater show their creative posiitions since their bodies have now been contorted every which way.

Why not insist on one combo spin of a basic camel (6 turns) to a sitspin (6 spins and all the way down) rise into a L spin by cross foot spin. It's a beautiful move which has been done since way back. It's easy to judge and not distracting like the contortionist spins. They can do those combo spins after proving they can do the basic combo spin.

Joe
 

sillylionlove

Medalist
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
I am for anything that makes each skaters spiral sequence look different then each other. Right now they are all cookie cutters of each other.
 

Mafke

Medalist
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Mafke - I'm not sure what 'features' are. Can you give an example?

Not really, this isn't my proposal but the coaches'.
I do notice skaters talking about features in interviews. They're what make the difference between level one and level two etc.
 

blue dog

Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
I think what coaches are trying to address are the spiral sequences that are no longer in line with the music, and I totally agree. I don't care how high Sasha can lift her leg--if it is in line with the music.
 

blue dog

Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
And also what makes the difference between level four feature 1 and level four feature two, etc. There was a post here once that described the difference between an L4F3 straightline sequence and an L4F4 straightline sequence--and the description made the L4F4 (more difficult) sound ugly. It involved moving the arms and the feet as one made a mini-serpentine down the rink.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
What are features?

Look at the definitions for the levels of non-jump elements. Here's the latest version:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/200809-S-levels.pdf

For spiral sequences, there is a list of 6 different "features" that can be used to raise the level of the sequence. If the skater does 2 of those things, the spiral sequence will be called level 2; if she does 3 of them, it will be level 3; and if she does 4, it will be level 4.

(With some additional caveats -- e.g., both feet, both edges, forward and backward is no longer a feature but is listed as mandatory for level 3 or 4; positions/edges that are held for less than 3 seconds don't count as features.)

There are similar lists of features for other kinds of elements.

This has been the way that these elements have worked ever since the new system was introduced. There have been some small and/or significant changes in the details every year, though.
 

Mafke

Medalist
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Proposal # 7 Defining spins

7. Definitions of Spin positions

Upright spin

In the upright spin, the longest axis of the skater’s torso is vertical and coincides with the axis of rotation. The skating leg may be bent at the knee and the hip, so long as the axis of the torso remains in essentially a vertical position.

A position where the torso is inclined forward, but the skating leg is essentially straight (angle at the knee of the skating leg more than 135 degrees) shall also be considered an upright position.

Other examples of variation of the upright spin include the cross-foot spin, layback spin, side-leaning spin, Biellmann position and "inverted-V" spin (knees straight, skater’s head near foot level).

a) The cross foot spin must be commenced spinning either forward or backward from a one foot flat spin with the free foot being placed on the ice as soon as possible after a minimum number of rotations necessary on one foot. The free foot can be crossed either in front or behind provided both skates are on the ice, toe to toe. If crossed in front, the free foot may be placed on ice at a 90 degree angle to the first foot.

b) In the layback or sideways leaning spin and in the Biellmann spin any position is permitted as long as the layback or sideways leaning position is maintained for at least eight revolutions without rising to an upright position. [Note: When an upright spin is required, if the angle is less than 135 degrees, the spin will be called no value.]

Sit spin

The skater is in a sitting position. The skater’s torso may be vertical or leaning forward or sideways. The skating leg should be bent at the knee at no more than a 90 degree angle.

Judges shall reduce the GoE for sit positions where the angle is more than 90 degrees (a weak sitting position). When the angle is greater than 135 degrees the position shall be considered an upright position.

Note: When a sit spin is required, if the angle is greater than 135 degrees, the spin will be called no value.

Camel spin

The competitor’s torso must be in a horizontal, or nearly horizontal position, with the free leg held as high as the hip joint of the free leg, or higher. The position of the free leg is otherwise free. Variations of the position are permitted, including holding the free leg at any point, including the skate blade.

The skater’s torso may be in an arched position so long as the axis of symmetry of the lower back and pelvis is nearly horizontal.

Judges shall reduce the GoE for poor positions of the torso or free leg, or if the free leg is not held as high as the hip joint of the free leg. Judges shall increase the GoE for superior positions of the torso and/or free leg.

Intermediate Position

This position is an unnecessary fiction that serves no useful purpose and is unnecessary with the above definitions.
 
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Mafke

Medalist
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Proposal # 8 Spin base values

8. Base values of spins

Note: Minimum rotations are part of the well balanced program rules, and vary from one event to another.

a) Spins with no change of foot and no change of basic position.

* Upright Spin Base value 1.5
* Cross foot spin, free foot crossed in front Base value 2.5
* Cross foot spin, free foot crossed behind Base value 3.2
* Layback or sideways leaning spin Base value 3.2
* Biellmann spin Base value 4.0
* Sit Spin Base Value 3.0
* Camel spin Base value 3.5

Any edge permitted. Variations of positions of the head, arms and free leg, as well as fluctuations of speed are permitted.

b) Spins with flying entry and with no change of foot and no change of basic position.

* Flying sit spin Base Value 5.0
* Flying sit spin changing the foot of landing Base Value 5.5
* Flying Camel spin Base Value 4.5

Any type of flying spin is permitted. The chosen position must be maintained in the air. Revolutions in the landing position may be different from the flying position. No previous rotation on the ice before the take off is permitted.

c) Spins with change of foot without change of position.

* Upright Spin Base Value 2.8
* Layback Spin Base Value 3.8
* Sit Spin Base Value 4.0
* Camel spin Base Value 4.5

The spin must consist of only one change of foot, which may be executed either in the form of a step over or a jump. Variations of the positions of the head, arm or leg, as well as fluctuations of speed are permitted.

d) Spin combination with no change of foot and two changes of position. Base Value 4.5

The spin combination must include at least two basic positions or their variations. A minimum of two revolutions in each position is required. Variations of the positions of the head, arm or leg, as well as fluctuations of speed are permitted.

e) Spin combination with change of foot and three changes of position. Base Value 5.5

The spin combination must consist of one change of foot and must include all three basic positions or their variations. The change of foot and change of position may be made either at the same time or separately. The change of foot may be executed in the form of a step over or a jump. A minimum of two revolutions in each position is required. Variations of the positions of the head, arm or leg, as well as fluctuations of speed are permitted.

f) For items c) through e) add 0.5 to the Base Value if the spin is begun with a flying entry.

g) Change of edge during the spin.

Add 0.5 points to the Base Value of any spin performed with a change of edge. Only one spin with a change of edge is permitted in a program.

The recent trend to "change edge" during the spin should be discouraged. The change of edge in the spin is not one of technical quality of skating. The quality of a spin should be its speed, centering and the position or the positions during the spin.
 

Mafke

Medalist
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Proposal # 9 Step sequences

9. Step Sequences

a) General description

All step sequences should be executed according to the character of the music and should make full use of ice technique. All step sequences may contain a variety of different turns -- threes, brackets, rockers, counters as wells as mohawks and chocktaws-- or always the same turn which can be done forward or backward, on the right or left foot or always on the same foot. They can be fast or slow. The sense of slow does not mean slow speed on the ice but a slow movement done in most cases with ice speed. However, a very slow ice speed with controlled movement can also be of credit to the skater. This all depends on the choreographic conception and interpretation.

Each step should be progressive and no retrogressions are allowed. However short stops in accordance with the music are permitted, as well as a limited number of spread eagles, Inna Bauer eagles and Walleys along the small jumps of half a turn rotation to give wider choreographic and artistic interest.

b) Musicality, style and presentation

The musicality of a step sequence means it translates the rhythm and melody into the skating movements.

The style of step sequences should be related to the total program conception and the music. The sequence must have a connection to the other parts of the program to be considered coherent. Style can vary from elegant to comic, tragic and satiric. Style is much related to presentation since the skater’s ability to project the style and convey the theme of the program to the public is vital to its success.

All step sequences will be judged on the harmony of content and the finesse of skating glide technique, the precision of edges, glide in and out of turns, free leg, back, arm, shoulder and head positions, musicality, style and presentation. The tempo of the movements can be very slow (adagio), medium (andante) or fast (allegro). The tempo of the execution will not change the number of GoE points. The GoE will depend on the total quality of the ice technique and the style. Even in fast step sequences, the type of turns should be clearly evident to the spectator’s eye. If rockers and counters are incorporated into "straight line" step sequences their entry and exit edges must be sufficiently defined curves to distinguish them from brackets and threes.

Reduced GoE

* Poor skating technique (shaky edges, badly scraped and skidded turns without edge control)
* Poor free leg, body, arm and head positions
* Poor musicality
* Weak presentation and style
* Too many steps and turns making it impossible to distinguish what they are.
* Too many body and arm movements giving a look of flailing unless the entire program has as its concept the theme of a "tornado"
* Exceeding "limited" content - i.e. too many Walleys, spins, short stops.

Increase GoE

* Turns executed with superior technique and style (good strong edges, clear smooth flowing turns)
* Excellent musicality
* Presentation and style very convincing
* Well stretched and employed free leg. Artistic use of free leg and body positions.
* Body, arm and head movements enhance the step and convey the music
* Steps well conceived for the music and executed with taste in the style of the program.
* Steps and turns if done slowly with super control and flow or if rapid very clearly defined movement. All turns can be easily recognizable.
*

No excess of "limited" content
* Sequences shall be designated by pattern/type.

a) Straight line step sequence: base value basic 3.0

Commences approximately at one corner of the ice surface and ends near the diagonally opposite corner of the ice surface, or follows the long axis for the full length of the ice surface. Only one stop is allowed.

b) Circular step sequence: base value basic 3.0

Skated on a complete circle or oval utilizing the full width of the ice surface. The skating must be on a circle or oval without excessive sub-curves. Only one stop allowed.

c) Serpentine step sequence: base value basic 3.0

Commences at the end of the ice surface and progresses in two or three bold curves of not less than half of the width of the ice surface and ends at the opposite end of the ice surface. No stops allowed.

d) Spiral sequence: base value basic 4.0

Consists primarily of spirals, commencing at the end of the ice surface, progressing in bold curves and end at the opposite end of the ice surface (serpentine), or a circular or oval pattern the full width of the ice surface. There must be at least three spiral positions, with at least one change of foot. Pushes in order to gain speed are permitted. Except during these pushes the competitor must be primarily in a spiral position with the free leg higher than the hip joint. Variations of the position are permitted, including holding the free leg at any point, or the skate blade. The position of the free leg is otherwise free.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
How much more can the skater show their creative posiitions since their bodies have now been contorted every which way.

Why not insist on one combo spin of a basic camel (6 turns) to a sitspin (6 spins and all the way down) rise into a L spin by cross foot spin. It's a beautiful move which has been done since way back. It's easy to judge and not distracting like the contortionist spins. They can do those combo spins after proving they can do the basic combo spin.

Joe
Features are the contorted, ugly positions we all despise, the changes of edge in spins, the pull the foot over the head, etc

Because not everyone has a beautiful whatever spin and currently choose features and positions in combo spins based on what they are competent at and choose their one position spin based on what they are good at. Also, I thought the point of the suggestions was to eliminate the lock step cookie cutter programs. By insisting that the combo be a specific combination of spin positions, you are back to same, cookie cutter programs.
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
sounds good to me. And bring back points for the straight edged charlotte!
 

Antilles

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Why less spins?! Why not less jumps? There's already too many of those, taking away focus from choreography and interpretation. I like spins.
 

MissIzzy

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Spins take up more time than jumps, thus they end up reducing the choreography more. Though if one removed a spin, one would probably want to remove a jumping pass as well, just to make it fairer.
 
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