Readers' Choice -- Which U.S. skater had the best season?

deserve, who said the competitions were fair in the first place. they aren't. they are who the federations want to win and push and political. just look at the coaches/canadian prospals why, they want to overlook mistakes.
it is who they want handed the win by overlooking their mistakes and nailing the skater they don't want to win with their mistakes;;; ex --michelle 98 olympics,
winner of the ogms from since it started. nancy supposedly would have won 94 nationals maybe we don't know.


sure not deserve, but they aren't. they are handed.

fairly4 said:

deserve, who said the competitions were fair in the first place. they aren't. they are who the federations want to win and push and political. just look at the coaches/canadian prospals why, they want to overlook mistakes.
it is who they want handed the win by overlooking their mistakes and nailing the skater they don't want to win with their mistakes;;; ex --michelle 98 olympics,
winner of the ogms from since it started. nancy supposedly would have won 94 nationals maybe we don't know.


sure not deserve, but they aren't. they are handed.

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Were you there? Did you actually see the underrotations in Sofia? or was it just off your TV set or computer? Funny the caller and the judges didn't see the underrotations. As far as I know only you did.

Would you ban the judges and the Caller?

Joe

fairly4 said:

deserve, who said the competitions were fair in the first place. they aren't. they are who the federations want to win and push and political. just look at the coaches/canadian prospals why, they want to overlook mistakes.
it is who they want handed the win by overlooking their mistakes and nailing the skater they don't want to win with their mistakes;;; ex --michelle 98 olympics,
winner of the ogms from since it started. nancy supposedly would have won 94 nationals maybe we don't know.


sure not deserve, but they aren't. they are handed.

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Here were the scores (Total, SP, FS):
172.19 60.16 112.03 Flatt
171.84 62.60 109.24 Zhang
162.89 65.07 97.82 Nagasu
142.54 50.30 92.24 Vahamaa
139.44 54.15 85.29 Nishino
138.06 49.76 88.30 Leonova
130.46 49.10 81.36 Helgesson
128.45 46.12 82.33 Hecken

In the SP:
[1] Nagasu: 3z+3t(e), 3l, 2a; sp l4, l4, l4; l4 spsq; l3 fw; pcs 25.26
[2] Zhang: 3f+3t, 3l, 2a; sp l3, l4, l4; l4 spsq; l2 fw; pcs 24.10
[3] Flatt: 3l, 3z+3t, 2a; sp l2, l3, l4; l3 spsq; l3 fw; pcs 24.22
[4] Nishino: 3z(shaky)+2t, 3l, 2a; sp l1, l3, l4; l4 spsq; l2 fw; pcs 21.92
[5] Glebova: 3l, 3t+3t, 2a; sp l1, l2, l3; l4 spsq; l2 fw; pcs 22.29
[6] Vahamaa: 2l, 3f+2t, 2a(to); sp l1, l4, l4; l4 spsq; l3 fw; pcs 23.28

in the FS:
[1] Flatt: 3s, 3z+3t, 3l, 3f, 3z(e), 2a+2t, 3f+2t+2l; sp l3, l3, l3; l3 spsq; l3 fw; pcs 50.29
[2] Zhang: 3f+3t, 3z(e)+2t, 2a, 2a, 3f, 3l<+2t+2l, 3z(e); sp l3, l4, l4; l4 spsq; l3 fw; pcs 51.09
[3] Nagasu: 2a, 3z(e)(2f), 3f+2t+2l, 3f<, 3z(e)(fo)+seq, 3s, 3l+2l; sp l3, l3, l4; l4 spsq; l3 fw; pcs 49.09
[4] Vahamaa: 2a, 3l+2t, 3t+3t<(to), 1f, 3l+2t, 3f(fall), 3s; sp l2, l4, l4; l4 spsq, l3 fw; pcs 46.16
[5] Leonova: 3z, 3f+2t, 3l, 2a, 3f, 2s+2t, 3t+2a+seq; sp l2, l3, l3; l3 spsq; l2 fw; pcs 40.10
[6] Nishino: 3z+2t, 3f(e), 3l<(2f), 2a(hd), 3z, 3s<(hd)+1t, 3t<+1t; sp l1, l3, l4; l4 spsq; l3 fw; pcs 44.78

Exactly WHO do you think should have medaled at Junior Worlds this year if not Flatt, Zhang and Nagasu?

Zhang had been flutzing at every event this season, and had also been gigged for underrotating jumps.

Flatt occasionally got gigged for flutzing, but not consistently, and most of her URs were on the 3/3 in the SP. Her JGPF FS was almost identical to her JW performance, and she was not gigged for either UR or (e) in that performance.

Nagasu made a lot of mistakes in her JW FS, but not nearly as many as Vahamaa and Nishino. Vahamaa was notably nervous and Nishino's FS was the worst I've ever seen from her.

So tell me, how do you see any of the US ladies as being "gifted" at JW. None of the other ladies stood and delivered when it counted.

I voted for Johnny.
Many people(including me) had given up on him before this year. However, he bounced back, won 2 grand prix titles, placed 4th at the final, placed 2nd at Nationals but with the same score as Evan, and then placed 3rd at worlds.
Also, I think that senior skater is more deserving of this award than a junior or a part time senior.

Am I the only one who voted for Caroline Zhang for having the best season?

Following up on her stellar junior season, she held her nerves and medaled in both of her GP events, as well as making the GPF against prevalent expectations, and placing a respectable 4th ahead of Kimmie & Yukari. She had a disappointing debut at Senior National's, but even there she gave a rousing long program that brought everyone to their feet. At JW, she was only a hair away (.35) from defending her title.

At 6th, she has the highest ISU world ranking among U.S. ladies skaters (Kimmie=8, Ashley=12, Mirai=15, Emily=17, Rachael=18, Bebe=19). At 7th, she has the highest season's best score (Rachael=8, Kimmie=11, Mirai=12, Emily=13, Ashley=15).

I love Johnny, and he also had a great season (and also ranked 6th in the world currently, as well as 6th in season's best scores). But his had a "comeback" feeling to it, as in regaining lost ground, whereas Caroline has been breaking new ground, so I went with her.

Who knows what the future holds for Caroline and all her young competitors. I wish them all the best of luck overcoming their future challenges!

For me the best season means, how well a skater performed during the year under review and compared with previous years.

Zhang - skated quite well but nothing special from previous years.

Weir - won a medal in international competition.finally. However, his performance was not up to that Nationals when he skated to Otonal. His technical remained the same.

Flatt - As the odds on non winner in the 2008 season, she went on to win, and in doing so she showed all the improvements that she needed in prior years.

Not everyone will see the same things I see, but that's ok.

Joe

For me the best season means, how well a skater performed during the year under review and compared with previous years.

Zhang - skated quite well but nothing special from previous years.

Weir - won a medal in international competition.finally. However, his performance was not up to that Nationals when he skated to Otonal. His technical remained the same.

Flatt - As the odds on non winner in the 2008 season, she went on to win, and in doing so she showed all the improvements that she needed in prior years.

Not everyone will see the same things I see, but that's ok.

Joe

Joesitz said:

Zhang - skated quite well but nothing special from previous years.

Flatt - As the odds on non winner in the 2008 season, she went on to win, and in doing so she showed all the improvements that she needed in prior years.

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Rachael had a remarkable year, especially the JW gold, and it was especially a great little splash given the relatively little publicity she had, despite the National's silver.

However, I think the rest of what you said is quite subjective. Maybe you had such high expectations of Caroline that what she ended up delivering was "nothing special". To me, on the technical side she mastered the 3-3 very quickly and very well (second only to Yu-na for how much GOE she gets on her 3F-3T, although Mao & Carolina Kostner get similar GOE's too, though these last two are known jumpers and have been doing 3/3's for years). And on the mental side, she withstood the tremendous pressure and expectations placed on her by the media, USFSA, and fans. The only real blip she had was the SP at National's -- unfortunately compounded by a scoring error, it made it impossible to make up enough ground for a bronze even with a stellar LP.

For these young competitors, early success can be either empowering or bewildering. Caroline was obviously troubled in her National's SP. Mirai withered in her LP after the tremendous SP skate. Rachael ended her season on a wonderfully high note, but hasn't yet been tested as the "favorite" coming into a major competition. We'll see how all these young competitors fare next season with so many talents competing for so few spots at Worlds in such an important pre-Olympic year.

Joesitz said:

Weir - won a medal in international competition.finally. However, his performance was not up to that Nationals when he skated to Otonal. His technical remained the same.

Joe

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Actually Johnny had won medals in international competitions before. He won two gold medals and a silver on the Grand Prix in the 2004/05 season as well as two gold medals on the GP this year. Saying that he had never won a medal in an international competition is inaccurate. This was his first World medal yes but not his first international medal.

feraina said:

Am I the only one who voted for Caroline Zhang for having the best season?

Following up on her stellar junior season, she held her nerves and medaled in both of her GP events, as well as making the GPF against prevalent expectations, and placing a respectable 4th ahead of Kimmie & Yukari. She had a disappointing debut at Senior National's, but even there she gave a rousing long program that brought everyone to their feet. At JW, she was only a hair away (.35) from defending her title.

At 6th, she has the highest ISU world ranking among U.S. ladies skaters (Kimmie=8, Ashley=12, Mirai=15, Emily=17, Rachael=18, Bebe=19). At 7th, she has the highest season's best score (Rachael=8, Kimmie=11, Mirai=12, Emily=13, Ashley=15).

I love Johnny, and he also had a great season (and also ranked 6th in the world currently, as well as 6th in season's best scores). But his had a "comeback" feeling to it, as in regaining lost ground, whereas Caroline has been breaking new ground, so I went with her.

Who knows what the future holds for Caroline and all her young competitors. I wish them all the best of luck overcoming their future challenges!

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No you are not the only one. I voted for Caroline.

Joesitz said:

Flatt - As the odds on non winner in the 2008 season, she went on to win, and in doing so she showed all the improvements that she needed in prior years.

Joe

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I'm not sure what you mean by this statement. Rachael had only one international season, 2007-2008, since her back injury prevented her from competing in the 2006/2007 JGP. She did skate in the International Cup in the spring of 2007, and won that event. She won all the 2007 summer events she participated in, including the Broadmoor and Liiberty competitions, as well.

In 2007/2008, Rachael won gold at JGP Austria, and finished second to Mirai Nagasu at the JGPF, where Rachael beat Mirai in the FS, foreshadowing Rachael's JW win. Rachael was only 2.33 points out of first place in the JGPF.

At 2008 Nationals, no one expected Rachael to win and few expected her to medal, but she beat Ashley Wagner, Carolyn Zhang and Kimmie Meissner and was only 1.38 points behind winner Mirai Nagasu.

It wasn/t I who said Rachael only had one int'l competition.

I was also thinking about the endless discussions about Zhang and Nagsu on this Board during 2007/08, which led me to believe that she is overlooked to win the JW after doing so well at JGPF, and Nats.

I still believe her to have had the the best season for the Reader's Choice Award.

joe

Joesitz said:

For me the best season means, how well a skater performed during the year under review and compared with previous years.

Zhang - skated quite well but nothing special from previous years.

Weir - won a medal in international competition.finally. However, his performance was not up to that Nationals when he skated to Otonal. His technical remained the same.

Flatt - As the odds on non winner in the 2008 season, she went on to win, and in doing so she showed all the improvements that she needed in prior years.

Not everyone will see the same things I see, but that's ok.

Joe

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I'll agree with you on that last sentence.

discoduck said:

Actually Johnny had won medals in international competitions before. He won two gold medals and a silver on the Grand Prix in the 2004/05 season as well as two gold medals on the GP this year. Saying that he had never won a medal in an international competition is inaccurate. This was his first World medal yes but not his first international medal.

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Of course, but I was stressing his bronze at Worlds as the reason most fans are on Johnny's bandwagon. I just did not see an overwhelming improvement in his overall skating. IMO, he lost a bit of the flow he once had. It got him a worlds medal but then how does that measure up to the best season among all skaters? I would say Caroline and Mirai were better and although they did not complete the whole season, there was McLaughlin/Brubaker

Angelluv said:

I'll agree with you on that last sentence.

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And you agree with all the other posters who selected the fair haired Johnny? .

Joe

Joesitz said:

Of course, but I was stressing his bronze at Worlds as the reason most fans are on Johnny's bandwagon. I just did not see an overwhelming improvement in his overall skating. IMO, he lost a bit of the flow he once had. It got him a worlds medal but then how does that measure up to the best season among all skaters? I would say Caroline and Mirai were better and although they did not complete the whole season, there was McLaughlin/Brubaker
Joe

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I can only speak for myself but my support of Johnny does not stem merely from the fact that he won the bronze medal at Worlds. To me what changed for Johnny was his overall approach to the sport. I will agree that his free skate at Worlds was not the best one he had done all year but that doesn't take away from his overall performance this season.

Overall, he overcame his personal demons and showed us the Johnny that we knew was in there. To me that's what makes a good season.

My choice was based on Nationals... not worlds...

Overall, he overcame his personal demons and showed us the Johnny that we knew was in there. To me that's what makes a good season.

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and Johnny isn't fairhaired... he's got brown hair

And you agree with all the other posters who selected the fair haired Johnny? .

Joe


That's right, Joe! And I'd do it again.

Apparently, it doesn't matter whether Johnny had the best season or not. His fans are like Kwanfans. :yes::yes::yes:

Joe

I voted for Flatt. She, Weir and Nagsu are my favorites now, and I think she had the best season of the three. Even though Nagsu won Nationals and JGPF, she really won those with the short program. JGPF, I forget what happen there, but at JW and Nationals she came apart during the long. You can say that Flatt didn't have the pressure that she had, but neither did Tara Lipinski in 97 but she still had a better season than Kwan (jeez, I hate admitting that because I LOATH Lipinski). Weir was so good this year, but worlds was not where he should have been. It happens, dosen't make him any less the brilliant skater that he is! I think Flatt progressed really well through out the season, improving from competition to competition. Plus, consistency was her middle name this year and that's hard no matter how much or how little pressure you have on you. That's why she got my vote over the other two.

feraina said:

Mirai withered in her LP after the tremendous SP skate.

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Sorry to pull just one sentence out of context, but I wouldn't exactly call a Senior debut long program with just one obvious mistake "withering," LOL! Mirai got a lot more points for her 2A with an uncharacteristic fall than the zero points Mao got for her no rotation 3A attempt and splat (and Mao won Worlds with that).

Having said that, I do agree that Rachel Flatt really announced herself this year and deserves some recognition for delivering those solid performances. If Mirai weren't my hometown favorite, and if I weren't also factoring in her back to back Junior and Senior National Championships, I might have voted for Rachel.