Joannie Rochette | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Joannie Rochette

fumie_fumie

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
She didn't leave 3-3 out intentionally. She couldn't execute it after a bit shaky landing of 3F. Had she have more secure landing, she would have gone for it. Jo's coach Manon figured that it is more important to skate a mistake-free short and 3-3 comes only when Jo has a good 3F.

I doubt they decided to leave out 3-3 from the beginning, because Debbie Wilkes of Skate Canada said in an interview with CBC prior to Worlds that Jo had been nailing 3-3 consistently in practice, and there was a video footage of Joannie doing a solid 3-3-2 in the background. Hopefully It should be the case of Jo bringing her confidence level up.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I doubt they decided to leave out 3-3 from the beginning, because Debbie Wilkes of Skate Canada said in an interview with CBC prior to Worlds that Jo had been nailing 3-3 consistently in practice, and there was a video footage of Joannie doing a solid 3-3-2 in the background. Hopefully It should be the case of Jo bringing her confidence level up.

It's one thing to land a 3/3 in practice as an isolated element, and quite another to land it in a program during a competition.

Lots of skaters have landed 3As in practice but never attempted them in competition. Michelle Kwan once shocked Tara Lipinski by landing a perfect 3L/3L at a Worlds practice session. Rachael Flatt has easily landed both 3Z+3T and 3F+3L in practice, but has never attempted the flip/loop combination in competition, although she has landed the lutz 3/3 successfully many times in competition.
 

fumie_fumie

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
It's one thing to land a 3/3 in practice as an isolated element, and quite another to land it in a program during a competition.

Lots of skaters have landed 3As in practice but never attempted them in competition. Michelle Kwan once shocked Tara Lipinski by landing a perfect 3L/3L at a Worlds practice session. Rachael Flatt has easily landed both 3Z+3T and 3F+3L in practice, but has never attempted the flip/loop combination in competition, although she has landed the lutz 3/3 successfully many times in competition.

That's hilarious. Michelle should have kick Tara's a-s-s with that 3L/3L in 1998 Olympics. That could have muted Tara's scream.
 

rochettefan

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 17, 2006
But landing jumps in practice is the necessary precursor to landing them in competition. If she was indeed landing lots of 3-3 in practice, and she did have the guts to include them in a few competitions, one of which was very close to being ratified, then I see these things as nothing but positive signs that she is close to really joining the 3-3 club. This past season presented nothing but upside to Joannie's future. She's not quite there yet and she has a few faults but if/when she really gets her 3-3 she will be a medal contender. A clean Joannie without the 3-3 is almost a medal contender, so her scores can only improve from here.

I think she got good GP assignments with good shots at two silvers and providing last year's Joannie or better shows up, she should finally get back to the GP final.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I think the factor that is keeping Joannie from medaling is not the lack of a 3/3. It's her consistency--or lack of it--that keeps the judges from giving her PCS scores high enough to contend for a medal.

At Worlds, she stepped out of the solo 3Z in the SP, leaving her in 6th place. She still had a chance to make the podium, though, as she was only 1.57 points out of the medals. But in the FS, she had multiple little mistakes: putting a hand down on the 3Z and leaving out the third jump in her opening combo, popping the loop, and two-footing and putting a hand down on the second jump of her final 2A sequence. She lost further ground to Kim (8.79 points), Asada (6.87 points), Kostner (5.81 points) and Nakano (1.71 points) because of all the little glitches. She moved up to fifth place only because Korpi, who had been in 4th place after the SP, totally bombed her FS.

I still believe that Joannie has the technical ability to contend for a medal. But I don't think deep down SHE believes that, and therein lies the source of her problem.
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
It's one thing to land a 3/3 in practice as an isolated element, and quite another to land it in a program during a competition.

Right. Kimmie was landing 3 flip/3loop in practice at Nationals and in the event she could not even land the 3 flip solo.

I think the factor that is keeping Joannie from medaling is not the lack of a 3/3. It's her consistency--or lack of it--that keeps the judges from giving her PCS scores high enough to contend for a medal.

At Worlds, she stepped out of the solo 3Z in the SP, leaving her in 6th place. She still had a chance to make the podium, though, as she was only 1.57 points out of the medals. But in the FS, she had multiple little mistakes: putting a hand down on the 3Z and leaving out the third jump in her opening combo, popping the loop, and two-footing and putting a hand down on the second jump of her final 2A sequence. She lost further ground to Kim (8.79 points), Asada (6.87 points), Kostner (5.81 points) and Nakano (1.71 points) because of all the little glitches. She moved up to fifth place only because Korpi, who had been in 4th place after the SP, totally bombed her FS.

True, she is not very consistent, and she always seems to make at least one unfortunate mistake, but that does not explain how Kostner, perhaps the most inconsistant skater on the planet, who had a sloppy SP and LP at worlds got a medal.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
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Aug 31, 2003
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True, she is not very consistent, and she always seems to make at least one unfortunate mistake, but that does not explain how Kostner, perhaps the most inconsistant skater on the planet, who had a sloppy SP and LP at worlds got a medal.

Kostner is the European judges' darling, and the majority of the judges on any FS panel are European. European judges will support Kostner, especially when she is the only European skater in medal contention. They will always give her the benefit of the doubt, and boost her PCS scores to keep her abreast of the other top ladies, even when she makes mistakes.

Kostner also gets a bye because of her amazing speed and the height she gets on her best jumps. Her non-jump elements (especially the spins and spiral) are so-so, but whether you like her long-limbed, exuberant style or not, Carolina has a 'wow' factor, and that gives her an edge over the workmanlike skating of Rochette and Meier.

Look at the composition of the Worlds FS judging panel: SUI SWE TPE RUS KOR ROU ITA HUN UKR SVK AUT BUL. Two Asian judges and 10 European judges, 0 North American judges.

Look at the protocol, and you can see that there are 4 judges who gave Kostner at least one 8 in PCS; one gave her all 8s and we all know which judge that was. Only two judges gave her a majority of scores in the 6s (and you can easily guess who they were).

By contrast, when you look at Rochette's PCS scores, only 4 judges gave her a majority of scores in the 7s, the result being that her final PCS scores were all in the 6s, while Nakano's, Kostner's, Asada's and Kim's scores were all in the 7s. And Meier, who finished right behind Rochette, had 3 of 5 PCS scores in the 7s because 8 of 12 judges gave her a majority of scores in the 7s.

If Rochette doesn't have a near-clean FS, she isn't going to see high PCS scores from the Asian and European judges. She has to earn those scores by performing a bravura FS with no obvious mistakes.
 
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hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
If Rochette doesn't have a near-clean FS, she isn't going to see high PCS scores from the Asian and European judges. She has to earn those scores by performing a bravura FS with no obvious mistakes.
Which is going to be difficult, because she's not a bravura skater.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
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United-States
Which is going to be difficult, because she's not a bravura skater.

Sarah Hughes certainly wasn't a bravura skater, but she managed to pull off a bravura performance, just once, at the 2002 Olympics. Kimmie Meissner isn't a bravura skater either, but she gave a bravura performance at 2006 Worlds.

I believe Rochette did have a bravura performance at Nationals in 2005. So there is one in her. She just has to bring it out at the right time, internationally. That's what it will take to put her on the podium at Worlds or Olympics.
 
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bibi

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 7, 2007
I doubt they decided to leave out 3-3 from the beginning, because Debbie Wilkes of Skate Canada said in an interview with CBC prior to Worlds that Jo had been nailing 3-3 consistently in practice, and there was a video footage of Joannie doing a solid 3-3-2 in the background. Hopefully It should be the case of Jo bringing her confidence level up.
__________________

I want to see this 3-3-2!! Any videos?
 

Ginask8s

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
I think that she was very elegant and graceful. She has beautiful upper body carriage. She should get another program like this one. The choreography was superlative and very easy to relate to. When she lands her jumps they look very complete and technically sound. I think she is powerful and graceful. She obviously has the ability to interpret very subtle nuances in music, which makes her a bit of a dancer .
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Joannie's upper body is very straight and upright, but it is also rather stiff. Her shoulders are aligned directly over her hips 90% of the time, with very little lateral movement. She doesn't have the flexibility for the more 'wow' spiral positions, can't do a Biellmann, and her upright spins can sometimes be awkward. But few top skaters excel in all areas of skating; Kostner's non-jump elements aren't anything special, yet she has won two World medals.

Joannie has shown she can deliver a finished, polished performance, but so far has done so only at Nationals. Unfortunately, in 2005, she followed up her brilliant Nationals performance with a mediocre 11th place at 2005 Worlds. She has to develop the confidence to skate as well on international ice as she has shown she can do at home.
 
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mycelticblessing

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Joannie's upper body is very straight and upright, but it is also rather stiff. Her shoulders are aligned directly over her hips 90% of the time, with very little lateral movement. She doesn't have the flexibility for the more 'wow' spiral positions, can't do a Biellmann, and her upright spins can sometimes be awkward. But few top skaters excel in all areas of skating; Kostner's non-jump elements aren't anything special, yet she has won two World medals.

Joannie has shown she can deliver a finished, polished performance, but so far has done so only at Nationals. Unfortunately, in 2005, she followed up her brilliant Nationals performance with a mediocre 11th place at 2005 Worlds. She has to develop the confidence to skate as well on international ice as she has shown she can do at home.

She may not be as flexible as Mao or Kim, but I do feel that she is a more well-rounded skater than Kostner. I thought she delivered good programs at the Olympics. They were not perfect, but very good. I especially love her LP at the Olympics.
 

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
I love Mathman's idea.

So What does Joannie Rochette have to do to take the final step onto the podium?

She is facing even steeper competition next year with all the strong US ladies moving up to the senior field.

Honest assessment of her status, training will be appreciated.


So What does Joannie Rochette have to do to take the final step onto the podium?

She needs to be consistent with her jumps. She seems to make a lot of ground one season and then gives in to her nerves the next. Joanie has the package as has been noted she just needs to deliver - like Jeff did!!!

good question
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
So What does Joannie Rochette have to do to take the final step onto the podium?

She needs to be consistent with her jumps. She seems to make a lot of ground one season and then gives in to her nerves the next. Joanie has the package as has been noted she just needs to deliver - like Jeff did!!!

good question

That's the conclusion I reached. The judges don't give Joannie the high PCS scores the other top skaters get because of her inconsistency. She does have correct technique, but her nerves get the best of her. She has to believe she can do it.
 
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