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Thread: Morozov blames agent for split with Takahashi v.2

  1. #31
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    BUT this is not really about whether we choose to believe Morozov or Takahashi. It's about whether we choose to believe Morozov or Ihara (the agent).
    I agree with this.

    As for Morozov, I don't think it's really a case of "not sticking with the skater". It looks like he wasn't happy with Ihara already at the beginning of the season, but he stayed with Daisuke as long as he could. If the cooperation between him and the agent really was that difficult, then continuing to stick with the current situation would only hurt Daisuke's chances in competition. I think that after Dai's poor showing at Worlds Nikolai reached the end of his tether.

    Last off-season, he refused to coach Johnny Weir stating he was too busy with his current students. I doubt that now, getting close to the Olympics, he would suddenly feel like taking on another pupil, especially one that would be a direct competitor to his most successful student.

    Looking back, perhaps it's too bad that he didn't made this public in a gentler way right after things started going awry, but perhaps to the very last second he thought that he will be able to salvage the relationship with Daisuke. I wouldn't be surprised if his suggestion to train Nobunari was initially an attempt to scare Ihara away, and Ihara didn't even take it seriously and therefore did not inform Daisuke.

    I'm a bit miffed at Gallagher, it's not the first time that he wrote an article in the most sensationalist way possible (and a few times I caught him at making mistakes and giving false or misleading information). It looks to me as if he approached Morozov in a friendly manner, and the latter just let things that bothered him out, not quite expecting that they will made the press in such a raw form. Hopefully from now on he will learn that the press is not to be trusted.

    ETA: I just wanted to reply to this comment:

    [quote]I couldn't agree more. What strikes me is that he never sticks with a skater. This is a fundamental difference between him and Tarasova. (...)

    (...)
    The most obviouse case was the Joubert vs Plushenko one. The year Morozov created Brian's worst LP ever happened to be the year he worked with Evgeni. (...)quote]

    But what Morozov did is not very much different from how other choreographers/coaches work, including Tatiana:

    VN: Do you students ever become jealous? For example, how did Shizuka feel about the fact that you were making programs for Kwan?

    TT: I didn’t ask her. It is my profession - to help skaters. I’ve never swore that I would work only with one of them. I do what I can and what is interesting for me. I don’t go after any of the skaters, don’t “grab them by the hands”. I hardly speak any foreign language. But if somebody needs me, they manage to get my phone number, just the way Michelle Kwan did.
    http://www.goldskate.ru/media/tarasova_eng.shtml


    Although Morozov has done some great stuff, he'll never be as prestigiouse as her because all medals that his students will get won't really be seen as a consequence of his work, contrary to tarasova, who sticks with her skaters for years.
    I don't have time to find and quote all the articles, but all the athlethes whom he worked with and who wanted to work with him have a great respect for him. I've read numerous articles where he was very much praised for his hard work. The Japanese TV made an entire program about him (which my friend is translating tight now and will put on YT in a week or so). He is often called "champion maker" or "dream maker". Miki called him "a person who I couldn't do without".

    I think it's useless to compare Tatiana's career to Nikolai's right now, because Nikolai has been working as a coach for much, much shorter time (and, actually, he was extremely successful so far). And it's not like Tatiana hasn't lost any skaters (Sasha, Shizuka). It's a part of being a coach.

  2. #32
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hsuhs View Post
    We know by now that Oda himself has talked about Morozov approaching him (on several occasions) about becoming his coach. What we don't know is when it started.
    That's an eye opener. No coach likes to admit he went after a skater. They prefer the skater came to the coach.

    That's like a lawyer chasing a fire alert.

    Joe

  3. #33
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    As figure skating becomes increasingly international and intercultural in terms of skater-coach partnerships, everyone would do well to be respectful of cultural differences. I have no idea if this was a problem for Morozov/Takahashi, who did manage to get along fairly well for several years. I guess only they know.

  4. #34
    Custom Title NatachaHatawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inskate View Post
    I don't have time to find and quote all the articles, but all the athlethes whom he worked with and who wanted to work with him have a great respect for him. I've read numerous articles where he was very much praised for his hard work. The Japanese TV made an entire program about him (which my friend is translating tight now and will put on YT in a week or so). He is often called "champion maker" or "dream maker". Miki called him "a person who I couldn't do without".

    I think it's useless to compare Tatiana's career to Nikolai's right now, because Nikolai has been working as a coach for much, much shorter time (and, actually, he was extremely successful so far). And it's not like Tatiana hasn't lost any skaters (Sasha, Shizuka). It's a part of being a coach.
    Oh, I'm not questioning Nikolai's work or what he brings to skaters, it's because Nikolai so far hasn't spent many years with a particular skater (except Yagudin), in people's minds he's less associated to his skaters' medals than Tatiana is to her's. With Tatiana's skaters, there's more of a "Tarasova's pupil" thing than there is a "Morozov's pupil" thing.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by inskate View Post

    As for Morozov, I don't think it's really a case of "not sticking with the skater". It looks like he wasn't happy with Ihara already at the beginning of the season, but he stayed with Daisuke as long as he could. If the cooperation between him and the agent really was that difficult, then continuing to stick with the current situation would only hurt Daisuke's chances in competition. I think that after Dai's poor showing at Worlds Nikolai reached the end of his tether.

    Last off-season, he refused to coach Johnny Weir stating he was too busy with his current students. I doubt that now, getting close to the Olympics, he would suddenly feel like taking on another pupil, especially one that would be a direct competitor to his most successful student.

    Looking back, perhaps it's too bad that he didn't made this public in a gentler way right after things started going awry, but perhaps to the very last second he thought that he will be able to salvage the relationship with Daisuke. I wouldn't be surprised if his suggestion to train Nobunari was initially an attempt to scare Ihara away, and Ihara didn't even take it seriously and therefore did not inform Daisuke.

    I'm a bit miffed at Gallagher, it's not the first time that he wrote an article in the most sensationalist way possible (and a few times I caught him at making mistakes and giving false or misleading information). It looks to me as if he approached Morozov in a friendly manner, and the latter just let things that bothered him out, not quite expecting that they will made the press in such a raw form. Hopefully from now on he will learn that the press is not to be trusted.
    Thanks for the thoughtful, balanced viewpoint. As someone smart once said, "There are always three sides to everything: Yours, mine, and the truth."
    That's also a very interesting point about possible reasons for talking to Oda.

  6. #36
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    TT and Nikolai are Master Coaches. They do not train beginners (except for money). They train skaters who are already top 10 skaters and imo, they will further train (if it is necessary) only the best of the top 10. Nikoliai trains in USA and TT in Russia. Nikolai convinces a skater to train with him. TT trains a skater who asks for her and she approves.

    What went on with Morozov and Takahashi is not clear. But apparently Morozov did go after Oda unless someone knows his Agent went to Nikolai.

    Joe

  7. #37
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    As for about the article,

    The situation between Morozov , Daisuke and the agent, I don’t take it so seriously about this. We can discuss about it but no one knows the truth right now, except those three, and we may all find out the truth at some later time.

  8. #38
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    A discussion of cultural differences in the concept of saving face has been moved to the political forum, where it more properly belongs.

    Here's the URL:
    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22260

    For those interested, please continue your discussion of saving face there.

    Now let's here more about Dai, Morozov, and the agent!
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 06-06-2008 at 12:09 PM.

  9. #39
    Custom Title NatachaHatawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancingqueen View Post
    As for about the article,

    The situation between Morozov , Daisuke and the agent, I don’t take it so seriously about this. We can discuss about it but no one knows the truth right now, except those three, and we may all find out the truth at some later time.
    I'm not sure we will, not in the near future. Ihara will obviously tell a different story to Nikolai's, and Dai will tell another one too. One thing that's pretty obvious is that it's a case of Nikolai vs Ihara, though we don't know who's really at fault. It's a shame that Dai's stuck in between the two, expecially as the work they did together was great.

  10. #40
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    Enough, enough of all this Is any skater really hurting by all of it? What role does Oda play in all this? Facts please, I read enough specs.

    Joe

  11. #41
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    unless the three parties involved actually sign up and post on these boards we're never going to have the facts. even then we'd have to read between the lines as there are three different stories to tell that all surround the truth...

    coach changing happens all the time, nothing to lose sleep over!

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by NatachaHatawa View Post
    Oh, I'm not questioning Nikolai's work or what he brings to skaters, it's because Nikolai so far hasn't spent many years with a particular skater (except Yagudin), in people's minds he's less associated to his skaters' medals than Tatiana is to her's. With Tatiana's skaters, there's more of a "Tarasova's pupil" thing than there is a "Morozov's pupil" thing.
    I disagree with that. Tarasova's recent success occurred while Morosov was working under her. I am also under the impression that Morosov was the one who worked the most with the skaters as he has continued to have success with skaters after he had left Tarasova.

  13. #43
    Custom Title NatachaHatawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soogar View Post
    I disagree with that. Tarasova's recent success occurred while Morosov was working under her. I am also under the impression that Morosov was the one who worked the most with the skaters as he has continued to have success with skaters after he had left Tarasova.
    It's not the achievements or the work I'm talking about, it's the image. I agree with your annalysis, I'm just saying that one always hears about " Tatiana Tarasova's gold medals", but never about Nikolai's. In people's minds Nikolai is more associated to his actual work (the programs he came up with, the skaters he brought back to life...) than to a certain amount of medals, espacially as he hasn't had as many long-term partnerships with skaters as Tatiana (which is normal). He's more seen as the "magician of the momment" rather than the "long term coach".

  14. #44
    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    unless the three parties involved actually sign up and post on these boards we're never going to have the facts. even then we'd have to read between the lines as there are three different stories to tell that all surround the truth...

    coach changing happens all the time, nothing to lose sleep over!
    Here here, Toni!

  15. #45
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue dog View Post
    Here here, Toni!
    I second that. I saw way too much blame put on Nobu and Morosov by the media and fans even though nobody can know the truth. I feel very sorry for them.

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