Could someone explain to me the 2002 Olympic womens results?

pengdequan · Jul 21, 2008

Fossi said:
Irina's skate was sloppy and uninspired. Almost like she thought the gold was hers after Michelle faltered. Remember how the judges at GPF gave Irina that huge gift? I think she expected it agian. Sarah skated lights out and won. She deserved it. Had the placements in the SP been different, the skaters would've performed differently in the LP. No guarantee Irina would've won the gold. She choked in the LP, just as Kwan did, so imagine what would've happened to Irina if 1st after the SP? There are no could've, should've, would've's. Sarah won. Some judges tried to give it to Irina unjustly. there are some that still feel Michelle should've beaten Irina in the LP and won the gold and that Irina was held up. Sarah won. She was the best skater that night, and that is what the competitions are all about. Not who skated the best at the last competition or who should've skated the best.

I am not so sure about that.It was not fair for Irina.How could a skater with cheated and too footed jumps still being ranked in 4th place after the short?While Irina's performance was better than Michelle who still won the short because the Italian judge gave such ridiculous marks!
As for pairs,that was probably the only time and that first time that I got the idea how strong the American and Canadian media were.

hockeyfan228 · Jul 21, 2008

pengdequan said:
As for pairs,that was probably the only time and that first time that I got the idea how strong the American and Canadian media were.

Or, perhaps, how touchy Rogge was about the media in the first place.

jenaj · Jul 21, 2008

bethissoawesome said:
But regardless, my biggest qualm with the 2002 Olympics was the SP and how everyone just considers the LP as the definition of who should have won.

I agree! Sarah had the best LP of the night--if you credit all of her jumps, that is--but did not have anywhere near the best short program. If Michelle hadn't fallen, she would likely have won gold even though Sarah's LP probably would have still scored higher. But on the other hand, I'm not sure Michelle was ever going to win over Irina unless she skated a totally flawless program. Sandra Bezic claims she two-footed a jump, and if so, that might have caused her to be held down even without the fall.

bethissoawesome · Jul 23, 2008

jenaj said:
I agree! Sarah had the best LP of the night--if you credit all of her jumps, that is--but did not have anywhere near the best short program. If Michelle hadn't fallen, she would likely have won gold even though Sarah's LP probably would have still scored higher. But on the other hand, I'm not sure Michelle was ever going to win over Irina unless she skated a totally flawless program. Sandra Bezic claims she two-footed a jump, and if so, that might have caused her to be held down even without the fall.

I think that is what made the Russians so angry. If Sarah had a 5th place SP (which I think is what she deserved, highest! considering one judge even ranked her 10th for the short), then even if the LP had the same results, you would wind up with...

Irina - 1.0 (2nd place in short) + 2.0 (2nd place in long) = 3.0
Sarah - 2.5 (5th place in short) + 1.0 (1st place in long) = 3.5
Michelle - .5 (1st place in short) + 3.0 (3rd place in long) = 3.5

Irina would have had the gold medal, and Sarah would have edged out Michelle for Silver on the tie-breaker since she won the long.

mskater93 · Jul 23, 2008

The thing that made the Russians so angry is they thought Irina should have been first after SP. Also, the judge that had Hughes 10th in the SP was the Russian judge who was trying to keep PIF down for Hughes

chuckm · Jul 23, 2008

pengdequan said:
I am not so sure about that.It was not fair for Irina.How could a skater with cheated and too footed jumps still being ranked in 4th place after the short?While Irina's performance was better than Michelle who still won the short because the Italian judge gave such ridiculous marks!
.

NOT so.

Kwan got first place ordinals from the German, Slovakian, Danish, Italian, and US judges, and 2nd place ordinals from the Russian, Belorussian :frown2:, Finnish and Canadian judges (so much for NA unity)

But three of the judges gave Irina THIRD place ordinals (Germany, Italy and the US) because she preceded her triple out of a long telegraph instead of footwork, her final spin traveled badly, and she finished after the music.

IMO, Irina was correctly placed in 2nd, despite the fact that there were TWO Russian judges on the panel.

Sackie · Jul 23, 2008

I find it funny Chuck that YOU actually refer to NA unity! Can't remember the last time you said anything good about a Can skater. And quite often the US judge is the one that marks lower for the Can skaters.

chuckm · Jul 23, 2008

Sackie said:
I find it funny Chuck that YOU actually refer to NA unity! Can't remember the last time you said anything good about a Can skater. And quite often the US judge is the one that marks lower for the Can skaters.

PLEASE. Canadian judges are notorious for marking their skaters/teams much higher than they realistically place. At the JGPF last season, the Canadian judge had Crone/Poirier first in the OD and FD, ahead of Samuelson/Bates and the top two Russian teams. The US judge placed C/P ahead of Chock/Zuerlein in both OD and FD.

bethissoawesome · Jul 23, 2008

mskater93 said:
The thing that made the Russians so angry is they thought Irina should have been first after SP. Also, the judge that had Hughes 10th in the SP was the Russian judge who was trying to keep PIF down for Hughes

Maria did beat Sarah in TPIF on the SP.

fairly4 · Jul 28, 2008

michelle could have still won if the us judge put her second instead of third, because she was first in the sp . she still would have won, but because of the third place by (us judge) michelle came in third and sarah won.

Sylvia · Jul 28, 2008

fairly4 said:
michelle could have still won if the us judge put her second instead of third, because she was first in the sp . she still would have won, but because of the third place by (us judge) michelle came in third and sarah won.

No, this is incorrect. See posts #11 and 12 back on page 1 of this thread for an explanation.

jenaj · Jul 28, 2008

Here's what I think it really came down to: Michelle would have won the gold medal if she hadn't fallen. As things ended up, I think the judges got it right. Irina shouldn't complain about the placements in the short, because there is certainly a case to be made for her long program to have been placed third.

fairly4 · Jul 29, 2008

no it is correct. because if michelle finished 2nd in the free skate she would have
had .5 sp and 2.0 for long. which would have given her 2.5
sarah would have had 2.0 for sp 1.0 for long which would be 3.0
irina would have had 1.0 sp and 3.0 for long would be 4.0
sasha would have had 1.5 sp and 4.0 for long 5.5
michelle would have won oly gold .

gkelly · Jul 29, 2008

fairly4 said:
no it is correct. because if michelle finished 2nd in the free skate

The point is that Michelle would not have finished 2nd in the free skate unless TWO judges had changed their ordinals, therefore it is not true that if one judge had ranked them differently she would have won. Go back and read posts 11 and 12 as Sylvia suggested.

Anyway, it's all ifs. If nine judges had ranked the skaters differently, all the results might have been different.

fairly4 · Jul 29, 2008

no, it is correct. i printed up the results and she only needed 1 ordinal to be in second. what #11 and 12 has is wrong.;

carriecmu0503 · Jul 29, 2008

Posts 11 and 12 ARE correct. The majority ordinal system which you are referring to (by saying Michelle needed only one more first palce ordinal to win) was NOT in use in the 2002 Olympics. The ordinal by ordinal system was in use. Look at the direct comparison between Michelle and Irina's marks. 6 judges placed Irina ahead of Michelle, therefore, 2 judges would have had to change their marks for Michelle, not one. I hope this clears this up.

Mathman · Jul 29, 2008

Never mind.

(What Carriecmu said. :laugh:

)

fairly4 · Jul 29, 2008

my bad, i am sorry. i was wrong.
it was Irina , i was thinking about.

Could someone explain to me the 2002 Olympic womens results?

pengdequan

hockeyfan228

jenaj

bethissoawesome

mskater93

chuckm

Sackie

chuckm

bethissoawesome

fairly4

Sylvia

jenaj

fairly4

gkelly

fairly4

carriecmu0503

Mathman

fairly4

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