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Thread: ISU World Team Trophy-Opinions?

  1. #1
    Tripping on the Podium
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    ISU World Team Trophy-Opinions?

    On the "Announcements" thread there was an ISU update on the World Team Trophy to take place in 2009.

    What are your opinions? The format is 2 male singles skaters, 2 female singles skater, 1 pair, and 1 dance team from the top 6 ranked ISU member nations and the host nation. The inaugural event is slated for Japan.

    I am of two minds on this. As one poster stated on the other thread, Figure Skating is not a team sport. There are no competitive group routines ala Synchronized Skating and Synchronized Swimming. It does seem like a way for a revenue grab; sort of an Ice Wars for Eligibles. Many outstanding skaters would be excluded from this. The host country, Japan, does not have a dance or pairs team. Bulgaria, Italy and, Korea have medalists but would be excluded for not having skaters in all disciplines. I didn't see how they would allow for a mixed team.

    On the other hand, there are plenty of official "Team" events for non team sports that do well. Gymnastics has a Womens and Mens team event at the Olympics. There is the Ryder and Davis Cup for Golf and Tennis. Skiing had the World cup Team some years ago.

    Those are some of the pros and cons.

  2. #2
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    Japan does have a Pair team (Takahashi/Tran) and a Dance team (the Reeds). Granted, these teams wouldn't have much of a chance against the top US, Canadian and Russian teams, but OTOH, Japan has Oda, Takahashi, Asada and Ando or Nakano on the Singles side.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I look at this event as taking the place of the season's end cheesefest. The skaters have some fun and make some money, the public gets to see some good skating. I don't see any down side at all.

    I hope Italy makes the field. Go Faiella and Scali!

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    You have to wonder who the 6 teams will be.

    For sure:
    Canada - two strong Men, one strong and one fair Lady, and a strong Pair and Dance team.
    USA - two strong Men, two strong Ladies, a strong Dance team and a good Pair team
    Russia - one strong and one good Man, two so-so Ladies, and a strong Pair and Dance team
    Japan - two strong Men, two strong Ladies, a weak Pair team and a fair Dance team

    Maybe:
    France - one strong and one fair Man, no Lady, a weak Pair team and a strong Dance team
    Italy - one fair Man, one strong Lady, a weak Pair team and a strong Dance team

    Unlikely:
    Finland - strong Ladies, no Men, no Pairs, no Dance
    Sweden - strong Men, so-so Ladies, no Pairs, no Dance
    China - so-so Men, weak Ladies, strong Pairs, so-so Dance

    There is a downside, though, and it is for the skaters, who have to endure another month of training and competition after an exhausting season. The next thing you know, the ISU will come up with a "summer series" for the second-tier skaters. Then there will be unending exhaustion for skaters at all levels.
    Last edited by chuckm; 06-11-2008 at 12:44 PM.

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    The World trophy could be a cumulative result of the GP season.

    Another option if a separate event is held......for countries who are strong in 1 or disciplines, they could partner with another country who has strengthes in their weak areas. Skating bridges borders...................

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    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    I don't see how this would work, at least for the next few years. Other than Canada and the US (and possibly Russia, should their ladies improve) I can't think of any country that can field a competitive team across all four disciplines. I thought chuckm was generous in his assessment of some of the countries (except Italy, which I would argue has two fair men's skaters in Karel Zalenka and Samuel Contesti, and one other lady who's pretty decent in Valentina Marchei). Edited to add: actually, Italy might not do too badly at such an event. They have two ok men, one very strong lady and a pretty good second lady, two good/very good dance teams, and a pairs team that at least shouldn't embarass itself.

    Fitting in somewhere between maybe and unlikely but nearer the latter right now, I think the Ukraine might also be considered - currently a bit weak in ladies and dance, but they've had some good skaters over the years. I had originally added Israel, but a second look showed that they have fewer singles skaters than I thought.
    Last edited by Buttercup; 06-11-2008 at 02:38 PM.

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    The Zamboni Rocks!!! sillylionlove's Avatar
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    If this is starting in 2009...i wonder how many skaters at all would be interested in this? I mean this will be the end of the season....they will all be getting ready for the Olympic year......wouldn't they want to take a quick break before doing so?

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    The whole concept is not clear and it come right after the World Championship. No skater is going to work hard at winning this,imo

    Ho hum on a real competition, but enjoy the exhibitions. Hope they include as many 1- 4 placements from the last World Championships.

    Can Mao Asada win over Savchenko/Szhokowy?

    Can Johnny Weir win over Virtue/Moir?

    If Canada gets the most medals in LA, will they do as well in this Trophy contest?

    just a few thoughts about a competition whose goal is not quite clear.

    Joe

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    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    The whole concept is not clear and it come right after the World Championship. No skater is going to work hard at winning this,imo

    Ho hum on a real competition, but enjoy the exhibitions. Hope they include as many 1- 4 placements from the last World Championships.

    Can Mao Asada win over Savchenko/Szhokowy?

    Can Johnny Weir win over Virtue/Moir?

    If Canada gets the most medals in LA, will they do as well in this Trophy contest?

    just a few thoughts about a competition whose goal is not quite clear.

    Joe
    I don't know about you, but its goal is quite clear to me--to milk the cash cow for the ISU. The fact that they chose Japan as the first host to this competition shows that they are trying to make more money for the ISU. Figure skating is at an all-time high in Japan. If we were in the midst of the 90's when cheesefests happened on a weekly basis, this event would most likely have been held in the US.

    This competition is not about the skaters, their health, or how burnt out they are--the ISU is using the skaters to make more money.

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    Ok, whats about Germany??

    Pairs: Savchenko/Skolkowy

    Dance: Zhigansina/Gazsi

    Ladies: Dytrt and ???? maybe Wiezcorek, Berger, Häcker (all 3 had bad injuries in the past) or one of the youngsters, who becomes better and better

    Mens: Peter Liebers, Clemmens Brummer, Philip Tischendorf or maybe Stefan Lindemann, if he comes back after all the injuries

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    What prize money (if any) will be at stake?

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    What prize money (if any) will be at stake?
    The total purse is $1,000,000 US.

    The winning team gets $200,000, down to $130,000 for sixth place. With 8 skaters to a team, that's a nice payday, comparable to what you get for winning a Grand Prix event, for instance (chump change for Mao Asada, of course.)

    I think this event was cooked up by the Japanese Stating Federation along with the television network that is putting it on and presumeably footing the bill. The ISU announcement says, "The ISU wishes to extend congratulations to the JSF and TV Asahi..." for getting this show together.

    Note that the first of these Team Championships is schedule for April of 2009, there will not be one in 2010, and the the next is scheduled for spring of 2011, also in Japan. No mention of what might happen after that. I suppose it depends on whether the Japanese sponsors think they got their money's worth whether they want to put on another one. (If Asada is Olympic champion, they probably will.)

    Edited to add: Here is the ISU communication with all the details.

    http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=911

    Note also that part of the deal is that the Japanese Skating Federation and their television partner can invite up to four "exhibition skaters" (Yu-na Kim ), for which an extra $50.000 is budgeted.
    Last edited by Mathman; 06-11-2008 at 04:53 PM.

  13. #13
    Tripping on the Podium
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    World Team Cup

    There could be a combination Rest of the World team consisting of perhaps Yu Na Kim and Sarah Meier for Ladies, Kevin Van der Perrin and a Sergei Davydov for the Men, the Bulgarian Dance team and a good/strong pair from another country that doesn't have a complete line up.

    This could be part of the GPF or the 1st event of the season.

  14. #14
    Landing my axel..............again skatergirl45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alicelouise View Post
    There could be a combination Rest of the World team consisting of perhaps Yu Na Kim and Sarah Meier for Ladies, Kevin Van der Perrin and a Sergei Davydov for the Men, the Bulgarian Dance team and a good/strong pair from another country that doesn't have a complete line up.

    This could be part of the GPF or the 1st event of the season.
    The pair team could be Savchenko and her partner whose name I have no clue how to spell.........

    What I think would be better would be to take the top 12 ladies and men from worlds and the top 6 ice dance and pairs teams. Then figure out some way to seed the skaters so that the teams are even but have skaters from different countries competing against each other.

    For ex
    1 lady
    12 lady
    5 man
    6 man
    1 pairs
    6 dance

    2 lady
    11 lady
    4 man
    7 man
    2 pairs
    5 dance

    I dont know.............. Maybe something along those lines..............

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    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    i Look At This Event As Taking The Place Of The Season's End Cheesefest. The Skaters Have Some Fun And Make Some Money, The Public Gets To See Some Good Skating. I Don't See Any Down Side At All.
    Ita

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