USA & Other Countries JGP Nominees announced

dorispulaski · Jul 30, 2008

Dancers

At Jr. Worlds, Ralph & Hill (CAN) finished 8th and Mysliveckova & Novak (CZE) finished 12th. Visnova/Csolley (SVK) finished 21st and Palomaki & Klimova (FIN) finished 23rd. The Russians didn't go to Jr. Worlds, but 12 Tatiana Baturintseva & Volobuiev (RUS) finished 4th at Estonia JGP and
Tchetinkina & Smirnov (RUS) were 5th at Sheffield JGP and 7th at Estonia JGP.
The Shibutanis were 4th in Juniors at US Nationals. I don't know anything about the other Americans (Ainsworth and Wolf) or the other Canadians (Vermuelen and Doleman) or the French couples, but I expect them to be good.

Oddly enough, almost all the junior teams who skated interesting, markedly different folk ODs in juniors are at this competition. I'd go, if I lived anywhere near, just to see the choreography

The CD will be the Starlight Waltz at Courchevel.

Bye the way, the CDs in the JGPs in general are:

Courchevel - # 9 Starlight Waltz
Merano - # 16 Paso Doble
Mexico City - # 9 Starlight Waltz
Ostrava - # 16 Paso Doble
Madrid - # 9 Starlight Waltz
Gomel - # 16 Paso Doble
Cape Town - # 9 Starlight Waltz
Sheffield - # 16 Paso Doble

luckyguy · Jul 30, 2008

dorispulaski said:
At Jr. Worlds, Ralph & Hill (CAN) finished 8th and Mysliveckova & Novak (CZE) finished 12th. Visnova/Csolley (SVK) finished 21st and Palomaki & Klimova (FIN) finished 23rd. The Russians didn't go to Jr. Worlds, but 12 Tatiana Baturintseva & Volobuiev (RUS) finished 4th at Estonia JGP and
Tchetinkina & Smirnov (RUS) were 5th at Sheffield JGP and 7th at Estonia JGP.
The Shibutanis were 4th in Juniors at US Nationals. I don't know anything about the other Americans (Ainsworth and Wolf) or the other Canadians (Vermuelen and Doleman) or the French couples, but I expect them to be good.

Addition:

Vykhodtseva/Shumski (UKR) were 4th at Austria JGP 2007/2008 and 3rd at Bulgaria JGP 2007/2008.
Wolf/Ainsworth are US Novice Champions 2008.
Guignard/Paulmier (FR) were 18th at Jr. Worlds 2008.
Guan/Wang (CHN) were 19th at Jr. Worlds 2008.

chuckm · Jul 30, 2008

Vermeulen/Doleman (CAN) were 9th at JGP GER last year and were 7th at Canadian Nationals as Juniors.

Bilet/Hamon (FRA) competed at Pavel Roman as Juniors last season and finished 18th.

Findlay/Richaud (FRA) are a new team; she is Canadian. He formerly skated with Elodie Brouille; they made the 2006 JGPF and finished 7th at 2007 JW.

ChrisH · Aug 5, 2008

The US team for the JGP Italy has been announced:
http://www.usfsa.org/Story.asp?id=41707

Also, the USFS has updated its listing of international assignments for the 2008-2009 season: http://www.usfigureskating.org/Athletes.asp?id=216

---

The following U.S. athletes have been selected to participate in a [my emphasis] JGP event. Official assignments will be named no later than 30 days prior to each competition. This is a preliminary listing of participants and is subject to change.

Ladies

Becky Bereswill
Melissa Bulanhagui
Amanda Dobbs
Alexe Gilles
Angela Maxwell
Kristine Musademba
Brittney Rizo
Marissa Secundy

There are 8 ladies for the 8 JGP events. The selection is strongly based on Nationals. It comprises the top 5 juniors, the top 2 seniors who chose to compete internationally as juniors, and the novice champion from Nationals.

Ellie Kawamura is likely the best skater left out. If she skates well under summer monitoring, I expect she'll get at least one assignment.

Sylvia · Aug 5, 2008

ChrisH said:
Ellie Kawamura is likely the best skater left out. If she skates well under summer monitoring, I expect she'll get at least one assignment.

Kawamura (J8 at '08 US Nats) is currently not listed as one of the USA's JGP ladies' alternates, however. Tenile Victorsen (S11 at '08 US Nats), Karen Zhou (S16; gold at Gardena Spring Trophy in March) and Victoria Rackohn (J6; silver at Gardena) are the three U.S. ladies currently without a JGP assignment listed on the ISU's Courchevel and Merano published rosters.

luckyguy · Aug 5, 2008

ChrisH said:
Ellie Kawamura is likely the best skater left out. If she skates well under summer monitoring, I expect she'll get at least one assignment.

You mean Kawamura (J8) is better than Chrissy Hughes (S14) and Kirsten Olson (J7)?

ChrisH · Aug 5, 2008

Sylvia said:
Kawamura (J8 at '08 US Nats) is currently not listed as one of the USA's JGP ladies' alternates, however. Tenile Victorsen (S11 at '08 US Nats), Karen Zhou (S16; gold at Gardena Spring Trophy in March) and Victoria Rackohn (J6; silver at Gardena) are the three U.S. ladies currently without a JGP assignment listed on the ISU's Courchevel and Merano published rosters.

Wow, federations are submitting as many as 6 substitutes for just 1 entry. :chorus:

Those 3 alternates belong to the All Year Figure Skating Club along with Ellie. Karen and Victoria are now listed as team C athletes while neither Ellie or Tenile are even on the reserve team. According to team envelope criteria, shouldn't Karen and Victoria be on the reserve team instead?

Besides Ellie, Chrissy Hughes, Kirsten Olson, and Blake Rosenthal were the other seemingly best prospects left out. Has the All Year FSC shown greater commitment than the other clubs while Ellie has not?

ChrisH · Aug 5, 2008

luckyguy said:
You mean Kawamura (J8) is better than Chrissy Hughes (S14) and Kirsten Olson (J7)?

I think Kawamura is a slightly stronger prospect given that she won both her regionals and sectionals last year with scores in the lower 140's and she's a couple or years or so younger than them.

chuckm · Aug 5, 2008

It's not necessarily that Kawamura is better, but 2008 was Ellie's first season as a Junior (she was 5th as a Novice in 2007 and 3rd as an Intermediate in 2006), so 8th place was not bad at all.

Olson was competing in her third year as a Junior (she was 9th in 2007, and she finished 7th at 2006 Mids Sectionals and didn't make it to Nationals).

Chrissy Hughes was 6th as a Junior in 2007 and 8th as a Novice in 2006. Her main problem as a Senior has been her limited triples (toe, salchow and loop). Those jumps were enough to win her gold medals in the JGP last season when the required jump was the loop, but this season the Junior requirement is the lutz.

Sylvia · Aug 5, 2008

chuckm said:
Olson was competing in her third year as a Junior (she was 9th in 2007, and she finished 7th at 2006 Mids Sectionals and didn't make it to Nationals).

Kristina Olson (a different skater than Kirsten) was 7th at 2006 Mids in Nov. 2005. Kristina has since retired. Kirsten Olson missed the 2005-06 season due to injury (after she had placed 5th in Novice at '05 Nationals and won the North American Challenge Skate Jr. Ladies event in Kansas in August 2005 over Melissa Bulanhagui, Rachael Flatt and Caroline Zhang).

The USA JGP men's alternates (of those currently without a JGP assignment listed as substitutes for Courchevel and Merano) are William Brewster (J9), Austin Kanallakan (J10), Grant Hochstein (J11) and Ross Miner (N2).

Based on their Lake Placid performances/results this past week, Piper Gilles/Zachary Donohue (new team), Elyse Matsumoto/Patrick Mays (N7) and Shannon Wingle/Timothy McKernan (new team) are the 3 USA dance substitutes newly listed for Merano.

ChrisH · Aug 6, 2008

A bit off topic but I found an answer to one of my earlier questions.

*If a Reserve Team member medals at any ISU junior or senior competition supported by the International Committee, they will be moved to Team C and receive Team C funding.

The Gardena Spring Trophy is an ISU competition and Karen and Victoria medaled in the junior division. That's why they're in team C.

Given the level of competition at these events, I'm not impressed by this team envelope criteria. In contrast, Alissa Czisny is still on the reserve team. To me, 2nd (and arguably 1st) at the 2007 Nationals is more important than medaling at one of these developmental events. :banging:

chuckm · Aug 6, 2008

ChrisH said:
A bit off topic but I found an answer to one of my earlier questions.

The Gardena Spring Trophy is an ISU competition and Karen and Victoria medaled in the junior division. That's why they're in team C.

Given the level of competition at these events, I'm not impressed by this team envelope criteria. In contrast, Alissa Czisny is still on the reserve team. To me, 2nd (and arguably 1st) at the 2007 Nationals is more important than medaling at one of these developmental events. :banging:

But Alissa didn't skate at 2008 US Nationals anywhere near as well as she did at 2007 Nationals---she was 9th, her lowest finish since 2004.

In the SP, she fell on the lutz and didn't complete the combo, then underrotated and fell on the 3F as well; she also had a near miss on the 2A. She got very high GOE on her spins and spiral, but the jumps were not there.

In the FS, she landed the 3Z combo, underrotated the 3F, singled the loop, again had a near miss on the 2A, underrotated and fell on the 3T, had another sloppy 2A, and finally landed a clean 3Z.

Her GP events were even worse.

At Cup of China, in the SP she underrotated and fell on the 3Z, and got a lip call on her 3F combo. Her FS was a disaster: she did not land even one triple jump. She underrotated and fell on the 3Z, 3F, 3L and 3T, and singled her final lutz attempt.

NHK was somewhat better---she landed all three jumping passes in the SP, although she again got a lip call on her 3F. In the FS, she underrotated the 3Z in combo, singled the (F)lip, landed a 3L, stepped out of the 2A, underrotated her second (F)lip attempt, had a shaky landing on the 2A, and underrotated the final 3Z. She landed just ONE triple in her FS.

The USFS looks at the entire season when placing skaters in envelopes. Alissa did not meet the criteria for the A, B or C envelopes, so she had to go into the Reserve envelope.

Alissa was required to do at least one summer competition to keep her GP event and she skated quite well there. Let's hope that she has conquered her underrotation habit and places on the podium at Skate Canada. If she does, then she will be moved into "C".

ChrisH · Aug 6, 2008

chuckm said:
The USFS looks at the entire season when placing skaters in envelopes.

I disagree with that. It appears that the USFS looks strictly at the envelope criteria only and those criteria are lacking in "entire season" criteria. The world ranking and seasonal bests aren't included. Alissa's 9th placing at Nationals was certainly better than Karen's 16th and better than Victoria's 6th in the junior division. Alissa's score at the NHK Trophy is 22 points higher than Karen's winning skate at Gardena.

chuckm · Aug 6, 2008

Alissa's NHK score---144.32---would be good for a skater in the JGP series, but for a skater who's been competing at the Senior level since 2002, it's not very good. And compared to the 159.30 and 168.32 scores in the 2005 GP, 163.69 at Skate Canada 2006, and 177.74 at 2007 US Nationals, it's downright abysmal.

In addition, Czisny's NHK score is from a SENIOR event, while Zhou and Rackohn competed at Gardena as JUNIORS.

Moreover, it's unfair to compare 21-year-old Czisny to 16-year-old Zhou and 15-year-old Rackohn. Zhou and Rackohn are just beginning their careers. Zhou was competing at Nationals for the first time in 2008. Rackohn rose two places in her second appearance at Nationals as a Junior. The USFS sees these two as promising skaters for the future.

OTOH, Czisny's 2008 Nationals was her 7th as a Senior, and she dropped precipitously from 3rd in 2007 to 9th in 2008. Sad to say, Alyssa's skating has gone downhill starting with Worlds 2007. She is a beautiful skater, but her jumps are becoming more and more erratic. She gets comparatively decent scores for some horrific skates based on her excellent non-jump elements, but unless she can solve her jump problems, the future for her is dim.

I notice that you aren't complaining about Melissa Bulanhagui being on the Reserve list. She placed higher than Alissa at 2008 Nationals, and moved upward to 8th from 12th in her first Senior Nationals in 2007 (she was also the 2006 Junior bronze medalist).

ChrisH · Aug 7, 2008

Let me put it other words. Alissa has earned a senior GP assignment and may receive a 2nd assignment. Karen and Victoria are junior GP alternates and will be fortunate to get an assignment. Thus, if not in the same team, Alissa should be in the higher team. As pointed out though, due to the holes in the team selection criteria, she is actually in the lower team. The argument about Alissa should really be whether she should be in team B or in team C.

---
Last season, it appears that there was also 8 initial US ladies nominees and that 7 of them went on to receive a 2nd assignment. 3 ladies, including Melissa, received 1 assignment. In total, 10 US ladies participated in the JGP. In 2006, 9 US ladies participated in the JGP. We can then expect that the 8 initial nominees plus 1 or 2 others will participate this upcoming season.

chuckm · Aug 7, 2008

The US submitted Alissa's name for GP consideration (her due, considering that she placed in the top 10 at Nationals), and Alissa received an invitation from Skate Canada.

But that has nothing whatsoever to do with the envelope where she was placed, which is based solely on performance during 2007-2008, and Alissa did not perform well, placing 11th at one GP event and 6th at the other, and then 9th at Nationals.

Again, if Alissa MEDALS at Skate Canada, she will be moved into the "C" envelope. Considering the competition there, that will be not be easy for her to do unless her jumping has improved.

The Juniors you are complaining about were placed in the "C" envelope because they medaled at their assigned events in the 2007-2008 season. However, there is no guarantee that either of them will actually get to skate in the JGP, but that has no bearing on their envelope placement. Skaters who have already delivered good results in the JGP will be given preference over newbies.

Alissa is also not guaranteed to get a second event, as there are several other skaters with one event who performed better last season (Emily Hughes, Alina Leonova, to name two).

Sandra_persch · Aug 8, 2008

Can we get back to the JGPs please. As much as I love Alissas skating she has aged out and is therefore ineligible for diskussion in this topic

I am actually really liking the Canadian ladies entries so far. Finally the are going with a younger team than in the past. Hopefully they can gain valuable international experience, have fun and skate great too.

nadster · Aug 8, 2008

Sandra_persch said:
Can we get back to the JGPs please. As much as I love Alissas skating she has aged out and is therefore ineligible for diskussion in this topic

I am actually really liking the Canadian ladies entries so far. Finally the are going with a younger team than in the past. Hopefully they can gain valuable international experience, have fun and skate great too.

I am cautiously optimistic about the Canadian ladies entries so far. We have more slots this year ( 8 + a few extra from higher placing JW countries not using all their slots). Therefore there is naturally more room to fit in the younger ladies. I am especially happy with the picking of Rylie.

However, when I see that Devon Neuls is listed as a substitute for the first 2 events, I can see that Skate Canada will waste a few spots ( in future events) on a few older ones who will fall off the face of the earth internationally after this season. The fact is that it is very likely that Neuls ( who is in her last year) will get a spot is not that good when you consider that there are at least 15 other ladies in Canada ( in senior, junior and novice) that are likely to do better than her. I also see Kang ( also in her last year and beat Neuls at nationals) being picked and she has had 4 JGP assignments and has not made progress. The top 7 junior ladies outscored Kang at nationals and the top 11 juniors outscored Neuls. Also when you apply junior PCS multipliers to the top novice scores ( those over 100 which 3 novice ladies managed to do over last season ) these novice ladies are likely to fare better than the likes of Kang and Neuls as well ( novice PCS multipliers are much lower than the junior ones).

So although more younger ones will be picked simply because there are more slots, there still will be promising ones left out for the older ones going nowhere.

ChrisH · Aug 8, 2008

chuckm said:
But that has nothing whatsoever to do with the envelope where she was placed ...

The Juniors you are complaining about were placed in the "C" envelope because they medaled at their assigned events in the 2007-2008 season. However, there is no guarantee that either of them will actually get to skate in the JGP, but that has no bearing on their envelope placement.

I trust that I've made myself clear, but you seem to be missing a vital point. I haven't criticized the juniors, but rather the selection criteria, whether that be for GP assignments, JGP assignments, or for team placements. I think that people expect assignments and placements to be based on an accurate evaluation of the skaters, so yes they are related. They should be highly related. This "nothing whatsoever" and "no bearing" language that you use actually confirms the weaknesses in the selection criteria.

Getting back to the initial nominees, I wouldn't have placed Marissa Secundy on that list. Despite winning in the novice division at Nationals, she had significantly lower scores than the other ladies last season even after accounting for the differences in the scoring between the junior and novice divisions. And she is not younger than the others. However, at least there is consistency in her evaluation by the USFS. She is an initial nominee and she is in team C.

chuckm · Aug 8, 2008

Last season, Marissa Secundy not only won the Novice Championship, but she also won her first international assignment, the Challenge Cup Novice Ladies event; she was 2nd at both Mids Sectionals and SW Regionals. That shows a degree of consistency that cannot be ignored.

Also, after winning the Juvenile Championship in 2006, Marissa skipped Intermediates and went right to Novices, although she placed 10th at 2007 Sectionals in 2007 and didn't make it to Nationals. She certainly improved upon that last season.

I think it has to be said that Marissa shows a tremendous amount of promise and she fully deserves a JGP event and her envelope placement.

The other juniors you mentioned HAVE NOT received an international assignment as yet, so I don't understand your complaints about how the events have been handed out. Just because a skater is on a substitute list is no guarantee that she will get an assignment. Many won't get a chance for a JGP event unless some top skaters fail to finish in the top 4 at their assigned JGP events.

USA & Other Countries JGP Nominees announced

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

luckyguy

Match Penalty

chuckm

ChrisH

Sylvia

luckyguy

Match Penalty

ChrisH

ChrisH

chuckm

Sylvia

ChrisH

chuckm

ChrisH

chuckm

ChrisH

chuckm

Sandra_persch

nadster

ChrisH

chuckm

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