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Thread: ISU Grand Prix announced

  1. #91
    Custom Title fumie_fumie's Avatar
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    No doubt Samson is the most promising of all the "upcoming juniors (sigh)" in Canada. However, she is not yet of the same calibre as that of Hawker. Samson's jumps are bigger than Hawker's, but she is no where close to Hawker in consistency and basic skating skills.

    I still don't understand why Skate Canada didn't wait for Quebec Summer Competitions and Nebelhorn to monitor Samson before putting her name in. Samson will be competing against the likes of Rochette, Phaneuf, Lacoste in Quebec and this will be a good indicator as to where she is at.

  2. #92
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    Fumie - I hope your faith in Joannie is founded. She does seem to go up and down like Manley did until she was able to put it altogether at the Olympics and worlds the same year. The Olympics have proven that quite often the favs going into them do not come out on top esp in the ladies event. Guess the pressure of the Olympics takes a tole and someone unexpected - like a Joannie can come through because all eyes are elsewhere.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sackie View Post
    I think Skate Canada is looking at it from the point of view as who will be around in a couple years when Joannie retires. I think it's called planning for the future. Samson does have the goods and could on a good day beat Leslie if she could only hold herself together and skate a clean long with no changes. However she has a habit of rearranging her programs and leaving jump passes out. Internaionally Samson's style is liked a bit better then Leslie who always gets low PCS marks even when she has high TES marks. In China she had the 2nd highest TES and the 8th PCS marks. Samson even beat Rachel Flatt in a short program last year - so on any given day she can do it. I wonder too if it's Skate Canada's way of rewarding Samson for making the top 10 at JW and earning us more JR spots.
    Looking to the future is all fine and dandy but if Samson finishes outside the top 8 at SC ( very likely ) , she will gain no ISU points and will be back to where Hawker is right now

    It is nice to say " thanks for giving us 2 JW spots next year" but the chances of Canada keeping 2 JW spots for next year are slim given the lack of quality of our other junior ladies. Samson is miles better than any of out JGP-bound ladies for next season.

    Realistically we have to look at our novices and pre-novices. We should be able to add jumps to their arsenal when they turn junior and senior ( currently we can't seem to guide our top novices/pre-novices past the triple salchow/ toe loop when they move to junior or senior). Solving this problem is really the issue of looking for the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by fumie_fumie View Post

    I still don't understand why Skate Canada didn't wait for Quebec Summer Competitions and Nebelhorn to monitor Samson before putting her name in. Samson will be competing against the likes of Rochette, Phaneuf, Lacoste in Quebec and this will be a good indicator as to where she is at.
    Totally agree here. Lacoste is worth looking at if she can overcome the injury demons. Injuries ( a constant factor over the last 3 or 4 years) have slowed down her progress considerably. I would love to see a Samson-Hawker skateoff at Nebelhorn ( consistent with how SC fills 3rd spots in all other disciplines).

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sackie View Post
    Samson even beat Rachel Flatt in a short program last year - so on any given day she can do it. I wonder too if it's Skate Canada's way of rewarding Samson for making the top 10 at JW and earning us more JR spots.

    Let's be real here.

    Samson beat Flatt by 0.4 in the SP at JGP GER, where the caller was unusually harsh on Flatt. In the FS, despite having several jumps downgraded, Flatt beat Samson by almost 10 points---4.17 in TES and 5.49 in PCS---and won the silver medal. Samson was 5th.

    At JW, Flatt beat Samson in the SP by 17.87 points. Samson had her best FS of the season at JW, but Flatt beat her in the FS by 30.85 points---17.36 in TES and 13.49 in PCS.

    Sure, if Samson can improve her performance by 50 points, she can be competitive with Flatt and Zhang.

  5. #95
    Obviously obsessed Eevun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alekzu View Post
    I'm really glad to see that our two boys from Sweden, Berntsson and Schultheiss, got two assignements each. I'm really going to try to follow the GP competitions this year. Hopefully I'll be able to watch it over the internet. And the line-up for SA is insane! I almost choked when I realized that Evan and Johnny were both on that event. I hope KVDP will be able to make it to SA. My hihghlight however will be NHK. Gotta love the Japanese. Takahashi is my absolute favourite, Weir is going to be there, as well as our very own Adrian. Awesome. No Plushenko in sight though. Just have to wait and see what happens there. I really do love the summer. But please, let it be autumn soon.
    Oh, hello darling Thanks for telling me about our boys! (this is what I get when I'm away for a couple of days )
    GP starts huuge with SA; KvdP (I really hope he'll make it...), Adrian (I'm so proud of him) and Johnny ( 'nuff said), WOW. I'm quite curious about Brian too, he did very well at Worlds. All this is going to be soo exciting!!

    Go, go Kristoffer & Adrian!!

  6. #96
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    Entries Ladies

    Nine ladies from the USA

    (Rachael Flatt, Kimmie Meissner, Mirai Nagasu, Alissa Czisny, Beatrisa Liang, Caroline Zhang, Katrina Hacker, Ashley Wagner, Emily Hughes)

    and only six from Japan

    (Miki Ando, Yukari Nakano, Fumie Suguri, Nana Takeda, Mao Asada, Akiko Suzuki).

    How it is possible?

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyguy View Post
    Nine ladies from the USA

    (Rachael Flatt, Kimmie Meissner, Mirai Nagasu, Alissa Czisny, Beatrisa Liang, Caroline Zhang, Katrina Hacker, Ashley Wagner, Emily Hughes)

    and only six from Japan

    (Miki Ando, Yukari Nakano, Fumie Suguri, Nana Takeda, Mao Asada, Akiko Suzuki).

    How it is possible?
    I'm guessing depth of field rather than strength of top skaters. Just a thought.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyguy View Post
    Nine ladies from the USA

    (Rachael Flatt, Kimmie Meissner, Mirai Nagasu, Alissa Czisny, Beatrisa Liang, Caroline Zhang, Katrina Hacker, Ashley Wagner, Emily Hughes)

    and only six from Japan

    (Miki Ando, Yukari Nakano, Fumie Suguri, Nana Takeda, Mao Asada, Akiko Suzuki).

    How it is possible?
    Good relations between the US and other host countries?
    USA has 3 ladies in CAN, FRA and JPN. In return the US SGP has

    from CAN
    1 lady, 3 men, 1 pair, 1 dance team

    from FRA
    2 dance teams

    from JPN
    2 ladies, 1 man

  9. #99
    Ice Dancing and Johnny Fan MissIzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyguy View Post
    Nine ladies from the USA

    (Rachael Flatt, Kimmie Meissner, Mirai Nagasu, Alissa Czisny, Beatrisa Liang, Caroline Zhang, Katrina Hacker, Ashley Wagner, Emily Hughes)

    and only six from Japan

    (Miki Ando, Yukari Nakano, Fumie Suguri, Nana Takeda, Mao Asada, Akiko Suzuki).

    How it is possible?
    With the exceptions of Alissa Czisny and Akiko Suzuki all of the above were guaranteed at least one assignment, I believe. At least I know for a fact all the American girls were, by way of the Season's Best list if by nothing else, I'm pretty sure Suguri and Ando were as well, I don't think it likely Takeda wasn't, and of course Mao and Yukari were both seeded. So the answer is, as stated, depth of field; they were able to send that many skaters to international events who all did well enough.

  10. #100
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Spots are given in the Grand Prix based on the performance of the skaters in the past year rather than by country.

    Bebe and Kimmie were top 10 at Worlds (get 2 spots). Katrina Hacker was 6th at 4C's. Rachael, Mirai and Caroline were top 3 at Jr. Worlds. Ashley and Emily had high enough seasonal bests that they would have placed 7th at Worlds. Alissa's seasonal best would have been 12th (0.01 ahead of 12th place Dyrt at Worlds).

  11. #101
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyguy View Post
    Nine ladies from the USA

    (Rachael Flatt, Kimmie Meissner, Mirai Nagasu, Alissa Czisny, Beatrisa Liang, Caroline Zhang, Katrina Hacker, Ashley Wagner, Emily Hughes)

    and only six from Japan

    (Miki Ando, Yukari Nakano, Fumie Suguri, Nana Takeda, Mao Asada, Akiko Suzuki).

    How it is possible?
    because the rest of the skating world is raving about "the depth of the Japanese Ladies" meanwhile we ( the U.S.) are carrying more talented senior ladies than could fit in the top at nationals!

    I feel bad for some of them. I have to imagine there will be quite a few who skate great and won't get to go to world or even a medal....

    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Spots are given in the Grand Prix based on the performance of the skaters in the past year rather than by country.

    Bebe and Kimmie were top 10 at Worlds (get 2 spots). Katrina Hacker was 6th at 4C's. Rachael, Mirai and Caroline were top 3 at Jr. Worlds. Ashley and Emily had high enough seasonal bests that they would have placed 7th at Worlds. Alissa's seasonal best would have been 12th (0.01 ahead of 12th place Dyrt at Worlds).
    yeah..we got a good set of ladies now!

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyguy View Post
    Nine ladies from the USA

    (Rachael Flatt, Kimmie Meissner, Mirai Nagasu, Alissa Czisny, Beatrisa Liang, Caroline Zhang, Katrina Hacker, Ashley Wagner, Emily Hughes)
    1) Top 12 at 2008 Worlds are guaranteed 2 GP assignments: Meissner, Liang.
    2) Top 24 Season Best scores are guaranteed 1 GP (Zhang, Flatt, Meissner, Nagasu, Hughes, Wagner, Hacker): http://www.isufs.org/isujsstat/sbtslto.htm
    OR
    Top 24 in the ISU World rankings are guaranteed 1 GP (Zhang, Meissner, Wagner, Nagasu, Flatt, Liang): http://www.isufs.org/ws/wsladies.htm
    3) JGP Final and/or Jr. World medalists are guaranteed 1 GP: Nagasu, Flatt, Zhang.
    Czisny is 29th in SB score and 35th in the World rankings (and a past Skate Canada champ).

    and only six from Japan

    (Miki Ando, Yukari Nakano, Fumie Suguri, Nana Takeda, Mao Asada, Akiko Suzuki).
    Yuki Nishino was also guaranteed 1 GP for being the JGP Final bronze medalist and being in the top 24 SB, but she elected to return to the JGP. Suzuki does not technically qualify for a GP except as Japan's 3rd entry for NHK (ditto for Nobunari Oda).
    Last edited by Sylvia; 07-05-2008 at 01:29 PM. Reason: added numbers and OR to #2 in my post above for more clarity

  13. #103
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Sylvia - To enure I understand this:

    Nagasu, Zhang and Flatt get one GP for Best Scores and they also get one GP for World Rankings for a total of 2 GPs.

    They also qualified for a 3rd GP for Jr. Worlds but only two GPs are permitted.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Nagasu, Zhang and Flatt get one GP for Best Scores and they also get one GP for World Rankings for a total of 2 GPs.
    No, that's not necessarily guaranteed (according to the 2008-09 GP Announcement) but that's how it worked out.

    ETA: Mea culpa -- my post above wasn't clear and so I've modified it. Because Zhang, Flatt, Nagasu and Wagner are on both the top 24 SB and rankings lists, it seems fair that they end up with 2 GPs each. Hacker and Hughes were only on one of the 2 lists (SB scores), and it turned out that Hacker received 2 GPs to Hughes' 1.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 07-05-2008 at 01:34 PM.

  15. #105
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    Sylvia,

    thanks for the explanation. I read the ISU Announcement now

    http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=956

    and it is obviously too complicated for me.

    The Announcement guarantees for Flatt, Zhang, Nagasu, Wagner and Hacker only one event. But they may compete in two events. For Czisny is guaranteed no event. But she may participate in one event. Why?

    Remained eventually so many slots open?

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